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[OM] Re: Panny sensors?

Subject: [OM] Re: Panny sensors?
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:24:01 -0400
Sheesh!  Go back to bed and get up again on the other side.

Chuck Norcutt

AG Schnozz wrote:
> Pi**y Moose ranted:
>> Custom WB was done on each body before doing the test. If that
>> doesn't correct for lens differences, you don't want the camera
>> anyway.
> 
> Oh, but this is where we disagree, o buddy o pal.  How is the WB
> determined?  Is it averaged out from the full-spectrum response
> curves of the sensor system or is it from a mid-tone response?  Let's
> think of film, for example:  When you balanced out the midtones on
> Portra 160NC, the shadows stay neutral.  However, with NPS, the
> shadows would get a color cast.  But wait a second, weren't they both
> equivelently white-balanced?  Yes!  How about Provia vs Astia?  You
> can WB them both, but the images will look different--and not just
> from saturation. If this type of difference is present in
> high-quality professional films, what makes us think that sensor
> systems would be any different?
> 
> You see, we are so blasted concerned about pixel-counts, resolution
> and other characteristics that absolutely NOBODY is asking to see the
> response curves of the sensor sytems in these cameras!  I might be an
> anomoly, but I have the response charts of every film I use printed
> out.  I can tell you the sensitivity and density ranges of each of
> those films.  I can even tell you about the toe/shoulder curves of
> them. But can we get even a smidgen of that data from the digital
> camera suppliers?  NO!  If we did, we would know what's going on
> between the 5D and the 1DsM2.
> 
> We get around all this by shooting RAW and post-processing.  Olympus,
> with the E-1, Fuji with the S2 and Canon with the 5D obviously spent
> the extra effort to get the curves "right".  They are different from
> other cameras.  Just as different as shooting Provia vs Astia.  Why
> can't we get it through our thick skulls that a sensor system is
> "digital film" and we DEMAND from the manufacturers the data we need
> in regards to spectral and sensitivity response curves?  There are
> many professional photographers using Nikons that swear that their
> D2H cameras produce a far better skintone than the D2X or D200.  How
> can THAT be?
> 
>> The real shame is that they don't, it would be a real asset for
>> 4/3. The second real shame is which third party maker does do 4/3
>> lenses.
> 
> Absolutely.  This was the key reason why I didn't want to go with the
> 4/3 system in the first place.  I really like the Tokina AT-X lenses.
> 
>> So why fret? You know what your camera can do and how to use it to
>> best advantage.
> 
> In a closed-circuit world, there is no reason to fret. In fact, my
> 5MP E-1 would be sufficient for a zillion years.  But when the
> clients read this kind of nonesense that the 5D is the
> king-of-the-hill in skintones, and that the E-1 wasn't even included
> in the test (obviously because it's substandard), that they may not
> want to do business with you because you don't have a 5D.
> 
> I am NOT discounting the quality and value of the 5D.  It is a very
> good camera.  But when a highly publicized comparison like that one
> is used without scientific background (I want to know WHY it looks
> better, not just that it does) and is limited in such a way as it
> was, it is not doing the professional photography community any good.
> 
> I can be pi**y to.
> 
> AG
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
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