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Re: [OM] Topaz Denoise as a sharpening tool (was "Adobe bringing Gigapix

Subject: Re: [OM] Topaz Denoise as a sharpening tool (was "Adobe bringing Gigapixel type function...")
From: Wayne Shumaker <om3ti@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 05:51:31 -0700
At 3/26/2021 03:33 PM, Moose wrote:
>On 3/26/2021 11:29 AM, DZDub wrote:
>>On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 8:30 AM DZDub <jdubikins@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 12:52 AM Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The one piece that I mention often is the "sharpening" effect on low ISO
>>>>images (Defined here, with contemporary
>>>>cameras, as below 800.) of Topaz Denoise AI. As no one ever responds,
>>>>positive or negative, perhaps they don't believe
>>>>me, don't care . . . ?
>>>>
>>>>One of a few examples I've posted.
>>>><
>>>>http://www.moosemystic.net/Gallery/tech/Process/Topaz%20AI/TopazDenoise%20modes/TopazNRAI.htm
>>I don't know yet what the different levels of Denoise in your labels mean,
>>but they all seem to have some "clarity" effect.
>
>Denoise AI has three Modes, Denoise AI, Clear AI and Low Light. That's what 
>the shorthand is about; the numbers are the slider settings.
>
>>I like that effect and it
>>does genuinely seem to sharpen -- and more subtly than FM.  It seems to
>>emerge from the image in an organic fashion.
>
>Magic, I say, Magic!
>
>>It's puzzling because it seems more significant than any NR in play.
>
>As I wrote just now, probably an unintended consequence.
>
>>I wouldn't have been looking for NR based on the quality of the original 
>>image.
>
>I do a lot of stuff like LCE and other tools that tend to exacerbate even very 
>modest noise.
>
>Lets face it, even an A7 II at 100 ISO has some noise, I can see it at 100%, 
>and LCE makes it more visible.
>
>So, I've always used NR as a first step in processing. Also v. important for 
>sharpening and uprezzing.
>
>>You say this effect is mainly evident in low ISO images?
>
>It varies, depending on camera and subject, but yes, the Denoise AI Mode with 
>settings of 21, 1, 15 mostly works with lower ISOs. But Clear AI often does 
>similar wonders on mid range ISOs, then, sometimes, makes objectionable 
>artifacts. The beauty of that latest updates is seeing all three right away, 
>either offering a pick or clues as to where to make adjustments.
>
>>Do you then use Denoise on everything?
>
>Yes. (Sure, there must be exceptions, but the rule prevails.)
>
>>If not, why not?
>>
>>What I have liked about Sharpen AI is that it is still possible to get a
>>little additional sharpening with FM (usually 1, hardly ever 2).
>
>One oddity of FM, compared to the competition, is the lack of sub-pixel 
>settings. I apply it with an Action in PS, which applies it on a new layer. I 
>then adjust opacity for effect. If you see an image of mine ending in "oof40", 
>for example,that means I used FM, Out of Focus Mode, 1 pixel, at 40% opacity. 
>"oofm" means I mixed settings and/or opacity in different parts of the image. 
>There will be a downsized PSD file with all the layer details. Classic example 
>would be using a setting of 2 only on the eyes, adjusted with painting and/or 
>opacity.

I always read with much interest even if I don't respond. Life has been rather 
busy for me and photography has taken a back seat. Semi-retired and working 10 
hours a day consulting. The semi-retired part is I only get paid when things 
work and I get to go bike riding whenever I want.

I have often thought about going through the list and compiling a 
Moose-cheat-sheet for myself.

You have shown that there is a lot of subtlety to using the latest tools. I 
often use the auto mode in Topaz sharpen except when I see obvious things. One 
of the biggest take aways from your recent post, for me, is that crisp is not 
necessarily sharp. It is much harder to judge when the subject matter is a 
landscape where one is not sure what the original should like like.

I mark emails I later want to come back and review and this post (image link 
above) was one of them: "[OM] DxO PhotoLab 4 DeepPrime Noise Reduction vs Topaz 
DeNoise  AI" on 10/26/2020 with "artifacty edginess, whacking the noise, And 
look at what Clear does for the red and blue clothing!" and all. Many 
observations in my haste I might not notice. Not knowing what a subject should 
look like makes it harder to judge... and I'm looking through my images to find 
an example of that use case...

Another thank you Dr Empiricist

WayneS


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