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Re: [OM] The Eye In The Woods

Subject: Re: [OM] The Eye In The Woods
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:17 -0800
Richard Man wrote:
> How about if you tell me what I want to learn? 

That's a tough question when you don't say what you want to know about. 
I just posted an image only to illustrate the tonal qualities of redwood 
foliage. I got a responses on other qualities of the image. Unless I 
specify very clearly, people are going to respond with what catches 
their eye and interest.

> How are the selection of the images? How are the presentation order? Does it 
> say anything to anyone? What can I do to improve my photography or 
> presentation?
>   

Now we are getting closer. It appears you are concerned not with 
technical image issues, but with choice of subject, composition and 
portfolio composition.  However, you say "What can I do to improve my 
photography ..." To many,  perhaps a majority here, that is a question 
about technical aspects like exposure, contrast, whether highlights or 
shadows are lost, color balance, and so on, as well as composition. The 
idea of presentation order in a portfolio simply won't occur to me 
unless specified.

Most folks here aren't making presentations or creating portfolios. They 
are interested in the "photographic" qualities of individual images, 
which include many things you wish to exclude. If you just post some 
images, without explaining what you want in the way of feedback, you 
leave it open.

And on this forum, you may get something other than what you want 
anyway, if the thread goes on and someone(s) lose track of the original 
request. If that isn't OK, you are asking in the wrong place, like 
asking an ostrich to fly.

In my first reply to your post, I said "I too thought perhaps you had 
used a green filter. I like the subjects and compositions of these last 
few images from Big Basin, but find the tonalities and texture of the 
foliage odd and unnatural looking.", so I addressed all but presentation 
order, but you can't generally expect people to read your mind.

 From the standpoint of a viewer, I find it somewhat difficult to judge 
the qualities you want feedback on if the tonal or other technical 
qualities of each image grate on my senses. There are a couple in this 
gallery that I find hard to look at for long. My problem? Sure, but 
yours too if you want maeningful feedback on other aspects from me.
> We know Moose for example prefers higher contrast images. 

Oh yeah, I remember you saying something like how attached to the "S" 
curve I am. I thought it was funny, as the image in question had had 
very little Curves adjustment. LCE, ShadowHighlight. Brightness, and 
others were probably involved, though. I actually commonly reduce 
contrast and lower brightness before applying LCE. So it's mostly local 
contrast, not global "S" curve in most of the images I modify.

> That is fine. I am trying to get lower contrast in my images. Nothing wrong 
> with either approach, but can we talk about *photography*? I don't rightly 
> care how my foliage glows, whether it is Vuescan artifact or I pushing the 
> wrong button, not my concern. But do tell me whether you think it is a good 
> photo or not, glowing foliage or otherwise. If you prefer one or the other? 
> Why? If it is crap, tell me.
>   

I and others did . Again - your definition of "photography" differs from 
mine. How foliage in an image of trees looks does matter to me. And it's 
hard to get past it, at least for me. If the tonalities are crap, the 
image is crap.

> I am more interested in pre-production on getting the effects I want rather 
> than the post production aspect. Sure I dodge and burn. I just wasted 6 11x14 
> on a print trying to get the best dodging and burning, but the
> points remain: Vuescan, Canon 5D, Olympus E-3 etc. are a mean - a mean to get 
> the image. At my dayjob, I am more bithead than most people. I write compiler 
> code generators and optimizers. On my photography, I am looking for art and 
> artistry. Why did we all join this list - because at some point (most of us) 
> has an Olympus OM on our hands, enabling us ... to make images.
>   

It's my feeling that your definition of what's important in an image 
differs from many here. So you need to be especially clear what you are 
asking for.

Still ... I've posted images saying something like "I know the colors 
are off, but how about that {whatever I've done}?" And sometimes I get 
comments on the colors. Its just human nature to react and talk about 
what strikes one about an image. I either respnd or ignore hose 
comments, according to my mood and engagement in the image.

Most who post here make an effort to make their web images decent 
representatives of the finished product. Otherwise, why are we bothering 
to look?

Moose
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