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Subject: [OM] Re: IMG: yum yum
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:17:22 -0500
I'm hardly an expert on color profiles and controls but my sole use of 
sRGB derives from advice from my photo mentor (a pro portrait and event 
photographer and former instructor at the New England School of 
Photography) as well as extremely strong sRGB advice in a seminar for 
pro wedding and portrait photographers given by Will Crockett 
<http://www.shootsmarter.com/>  But I can also find advice on Crockett's 
site to use Adobe RGB for commercial work.  See:

<http://www.shootsmarter.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=216>
(you may have to sign up on Crockett's site for this but recommended)

which says: "By using Lightroom as the heart of my workflow, I now spend 
probably 10% of the time I did with my previous workflow. So give it a 
try - I don't think you'll regret it. And if you feel like you need some 
help to get your workflow started skip down to the end of this blog post 
and check out the links to my complete workflow. I have written two 
e-Books that contain my entire workflow - one for an Adobe RGB workflow 
(commercial photography) and one for an sRGB workflow (wedding and 
portrait photographers). Both are available for purchase from the links 
below and they have gotten rave reviews."

I believe (but don't know for sure) that the difference for the 
commercial photographer is that the eventual output is the printed page 
done in CMYK whereas the wedding and portrait photographer's output is 
to a print lab.  According to Crockett, if there's a pro lab that 
doesn't work exclusively in sRGB he doesn't know where it is or doesn't 
care.

As to warnings from PhotoShop, the only time I get any warning is if I 
load an image that doesn't have an embedded profile.  My cameras are set 
for sRGB and my printer profile is an sRGB profile.  I don't have fancy 
software like "Creative Suite 2" so there's nothing to nag me on that 
account.  According to this link, the EXIF definition for color space 
allows only sRGB or "uncalibrated".  Therefore, it would seem that if 
you have your camera set for Adobe RGB, PhotoShop can't tell which color 
space is being used if it's just reading EXIF data.  The same link says 
that Qimage applies logic to the image to figure it out by itself.
<http://www.steves-digicams.com/techcorner/june_2006.html>

As to Adobe RGB working best with monitors I don't understand that at 
all.  The origin of sRGB is to have standard profiles for use on the web 
and profiles that fit the capability of (ahem) Windows monitors.

One of these days I'll finish reading "Real World Color Management" and 
understand color much better than I do.  Actually, I'll need to re-read 
it since I'm already 2/3 of the way through it and have forgotten 95% of 
what I read three months ago... and that's probably apparent :-)
<http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Color-Management-2nd/dp/0321267222/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203432986&sr=1-1>

ps:  Just an interesting tidbit on CMYK and quoting from the above:
"... we typically think of a monitor as having a larger gamut than CMYK, 
and this is true, but monitor gamuts don't contain the gamut of CMYK 
print.  Even though the monitor has a larger gamut, there are some 
colors we can produce with CMYK ink on paper that monitors simply can't 
display, particularly in the saturated cyans and the blues and greens 
that lie adjacent to cyan.  So the mismatches between various device 
gamuts can be as much due to the shapes of those gamuts as to their size..."

I've only ever once done output to CMYK print which was for 
illustrations in a church directory (where my daughter was member and 
editor).  I did the photos on the 5D in sRGB but converted to CMYK on 
output using PhotoShop.  The photos then went into Quark before going to 
the printer.  The final print done on medium quality paper looked pretty 
good to me although certainly not looking exactly like my monitor.

Chuck Norcutt

r.burnette@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Chuck, et al: 
> 
> This is a very confusing issue for me. Many pro photographers advise 
> setting Photoshop to North American Press 2 and Adobe RGB (1998) 
> to create files that work best with Photoshop's color controls. If I set it 
> to sRGB it warns me that my Creative Suite 2 color controls are 
> "unsynchronized." Adobe RGB (1998) is said also to allow better 
> monitor color display and throw colors off if set otherwise. But, then 
> they tell us that for the best inkjet reproduction one needs to use/send 
> sRGB files. 
> 
> So--should one set both camera and Photoshop to Adobe RBG (1998) 
> and convert the working files to sRGB knowing that  the lab will do that 
> if we don't; or should one shoot sRGB, convert to Adobe RBG (1998) for 
> Photoshop work and back to sRGB for printing of sending to a lab? Or 
> should one set Photoshop and the camera to sRGB and say to heck with 
> it? Or...? Or...? Or...? You get the picture.  :o( I understand that it is 
> not 
> possible to turn Photoshop's color controls "off." Attempting such just 
> switches Photoshop to some sort of a generic color mode--creating more 
> problems for the printer.
> 
> All I want is for my camera, my monitor, my scanner, Photoshop and 
> printer (mine or the labs) either to match or to have a satisfactory working 
> approximation thereto. (Yes, Virginia. I do believe in Santa Claus. Well, a 
> little bit, anyway.) There must be a way to accomplish this. I thought I was 
> doing OK until I started reading all those opinions.
> 
> Anyone have any sage guru advice that will cut through the b*s*?
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>  
>> And on a further related note never send anything except an sRGB image 
>> to a commercial lab.  If you do they'll convert it to sRGB before printing 
>> and you'd perhaps rather do the conversion yourself if it's required at all. 
>>  
>> Personally, I don't do anything except sRGB. >
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
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