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Re: [OM] Re: OT now Coke, mutating to chemistry and etc...

Subject: Re: [OM] Re: OT now Coke, mutating to chemistry and etc...
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:46:45 -0800
Johnny Johnson wrote:

Hi Moose,

Personal life preferences are an interesting thing. Caffeine-free diet Coke is my drink of choice in a soft drink.

Hi Johnny,
At least we agree on the Kiron 105/2.8 and both like making pretty pictures of flowers and other wonders of nature.

I don't like yam/sweet potatos, my SO does. So we were watching that most amusing and informative Southerner, Alton Brown, do a show on sweet potatos. One of his points was that anything you could do with 'regular' potatoes, you could do with sweets. My response was 'but, it won't taste nearly as good'. Hers was that it might often taste better. Conclusion, there's no accounting for taste, but it is crucial to how we live our lives.

and I shake my head in wonder when I hear someone call M. Moore's tripe thought provoking. But, what the heck, with you being from Berkeley I guess I shouldn't be surprised. ;-)

In Berkeley High, I had a wonderful English teacher, who taught many useful things in addition to English and American lit. He would occasionally post two poems, 2 paintings, etc. and have us write an in-class essay on which was better and why. Although it was easier to get an A by picking the one he preferred, it was perfectly possible to pick his choice and fail or to pick the other one and get an A. The most important factors were the quality of thinking and writing. Amazingly, he would grade them immediatly in class, hand them back out and then open the class to questions, discussion and disagreement. Even changed the occasional grade based on the discussion.

Your comment seems to me to say that I endorsed the strong viewpoints that Moore espoused when I said "An interesting, moving and thought provoking movie, I can see why it won an Oscar." Or perhaps you weren't beating up :-) on me, but just taking an opportunity to blast something you don't like. Fire away!

My point is that something need not be pleasing, accurate, morally correct, etc. etc. in order to be of interest, provoke thought or be emotionally affecting, the 3 things that I specifically mentioned. In fact, I would suggest that any group that only exposes itself to things with which it already agrees is on the road to trouble when it inevitably encounters the rest of life unprepared. Those qualities are what I find valuable in a documentary, whether or to what extent I agree with the inevitable viewpoint with which it is assembled. Thus my agreement that it is a quality documentary.

Note that the Yam story applies here too. Whether the content is pleasant or not, it it affects my thoughts and feelings. It's my choice whether I simply adopt opinions and believe 'facts' presented, do the opposite, or see what they arouse in me and be aware of that. Also, I like yams better than tripe.

BTW, for another thought provoking look at Bowling for Columbine follow this link:

<http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html>

Rob Jackson beat me to the punch here:

"FWIW, we're taught in documentary classes that there's no such thing as a documentary and there's no such thing as a "fiction film." All documentary is fiction. All fiction is documentary. Every filmmaker brings an agenda, or at least a point of view to the table. Even the Cinema Verite guys decided what footage to include in their finished films when they got to the editing stage."

Note that the Yam story applies here too. Is 'Good Eats' a documentary? Fact or Fiction? He stated and proved a truth about the versatility, yet ignored the most important quality, of the subject, at least from this viewer's perspective.

You may notice I still haven't ventured an opinion about the specific content and biases in the film. That's partly 'cause I really don't want to argue about it here and partly 'cause I think it would detract from my main point. I will say that I find issues and meaning in these events as a mystic and student of the symbolic content and meaning of life's events that are important to me and untouched in this film or anything else I've seen on the subject. As with all works of art, there are always additional depths of meaning. I would also note that, whether an emotionally affecting piece is intended to create or reinforce a point, my reaction to the human drama is meaningful and valuable to me completely independent of whether I agree with the filmaker's point of view or no. Viewing people being shot and killed is a psyhchospiritually important event, regardless of the apparent context.

I do find it structurally interesting that he essentially closes the film with the Heston interview, which is hesitant, ambiguous and inconclusive in content and presentation, and in the behavior and emotional affect of both parties. Conscious or unconscious, this placement and treatment seems to me to make sure the film ends with more questions and uncertainty than answers and certainty. I suspect that it reflects the interior lack of complete certainty of MM as advocate. At another level it seems to me to reveal Heston as a not to bright, insightful or introspective hired front man and Moore as an emotional child still looking for approval from an important father figure. Who better to go to with his being and life's work in hand and ask for redemption than a man who has played God, Moses and the leader of a very important organizing force in his childhood and center of moral uncertainty since then.? His emotional pleading for CH to look at the picture of the injured child and his compulsion to leave the picture seem far beyond the intentional content of the film.There are theses in at least film and psychology in this thing for those still in academics.

Back to similarities of preferrences, did you ever find a cone for your Weston?

Thanks to the soapbax,
A. W. Moose





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