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Re: [OM] [OT] film quest

Subject: Re: [OM] [OT] film quest
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:02:14 -0700
Boris Grigorov wrote:

.................Now, when it comes to grainess, I went to Moose’s website and 
looked at his comparison of the two pix.  If this is the grain you get when you 
enlarge it that much, it is not bad at all.

I think it's very good, especially for 400 speed film. However, if I wanted to make a 20x30" print and didn't want grain to be visible in the sky/cloud area, it wouldn't be fine enough and I would need a finer grained film.

If this small area is really what he enlarged to that size, it is not bad at 
all,

Well, you can see the whole frame in the other image and judge for yourself, there are plenty of unique features to check.

but still, how much grainier the print films are, can anyone comment?

The examples I posted ARE print film, Kodak Gold 400 is a color negative film.

 I also wander if he used tripod.

Almost. Light was fading and changing fast and I didn't want to lose the ray of late afternoon light that happened to be illuminating the little col at the top of the far wall of the valley. So I turned off the engine, to eliminate vibration, and rested the rubber part of the lens barrel on the car window. With more time, I could have pulled the tripod out of the trunk, but this was not a planned shot, just a grab when I saw it. I think sharpness is quite good using the window.

Which film (and be specific, please)would you recommend?

You haven't given a crucial bit of information. How do you like to view and display your pictures? If you want slides to view, the first choice is simple, use slide film. Since slide films vary greatly and you have no time to experiment, try something fine grained and punchy like E100VS, or whatever the Fuji equivalent is, to make those colors 'pop'.

Grain at the same speed is pretty similar between slide and print film, no point in going with one or the other for grain alone, there are more important diferences. The first big difference for me is in contrast and color rendition. Since the reversal process from neg to pos in slide film is part of the rigidly controlled development process, any given slide film will give quite consistent results from roll to roll (given consistent exposure). With print film, creation of the negative is consistent, but printing can go all over the place. I've taken 2 rolls and sent one to Kodak Royal Gold processing through a photography shop and the other to Kodak Picture Processing through a drug store. The 'pro' prints were fairly true to the subjects. The drug store prints were much more highly saturated and contrasty, almost cartoony. Seeing the 2 sets of prints, you would never think they were from the same film. Fuji 'pro' prints from the same photo shop are different yet, also fairly realistic, but somehow a bit cooler. So part of getting good results from negative film is selection of process/printer.

So the advantage of slides in this area is consistency - within the same film. However, all the slide films render color and contrast differently than each other. So if you ask someone what is the best slide film without knowing anything about their taste in pictures, you could easily get a film you won't like. Velvia is a classic example. Some people love it and others hate it. That should be enough to tell that it has a strong character of its own, separate from the subject.

The second big difference is in latitude. Slide films tend to have a maximum range from lightest to darkest parts of the subject of about 3 stops. Print film has a latitude of about 5-6 stops. With slides, it is often the case that the range of brightness in a scene is greater than the latitude of the film. In that case, the photographer has to choose between losing detail in the highlights or the shadows (the source of the unexplained "shoot for the highlights" comment you got). With neg film, this is virtually never the case. One can expose for the shadows with confidence that the huge overexposure latitude will hold highlight detail. Although caused by a different problem, the difference in sky/cloud detail in the samples I posted is typical of results from lack of latitude. The scanned print has very poor detail in the highlights compared to the film scan.

For most of my photographic life, I shot everything 'serious' on slide film. Once I switched to scanning, I switched to neg film because it is more forgiving of exposure errors and captures so much broader a range of brightness. Since the color balance, brightness and contrast are all going to be effected by both the scanning process and any subsequent processing, questions of inherent color accuracy in the film itself become fairly minor, except as they interact with particular scanners.

My favorite film is Portra 160NC, a relatively low-contrast, wide latitude film, but I can't recommend it to just those who get 4x6 prints because some shots will be very blah looking (but might look good with the 'drug store' processing I tried once). On the other hand, it captures everything and allows me to control all the variables later in PS. I've put an extreme example of this here <http://www.geocities.com/dreammoose/Portra160NC/index.htm>. The image on the right is roughly how the 4x6 print came back, sure doesn't look like a keeper. This was shot on a heavily overcast day (the ripples from a few raindrops just add to the image) with the cloud cover maybe 40 feet above my head on Portra 160NC. Now, I could just say oops, I should have used Portra UC or some other really punchy film. But the info is there in the neg, as you can see in the left-hand image.

Shooting fall color in New England, I'd likely use Portra 160NC and Supra 400 (now High Definition 400, I think)

Moose



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