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Re: [OM] [OT] In case you hadn't heard....

Subject: Re: [OM] [OT] In case you hadn't heard....
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 07:48:50 -0400
in my humble opinion, Phillippe, you do not understand the magnitude of 
the short term problem.  If you *quantify* how much less you will need 
to want and save you will soon realize that our modern civilization will 
have to vanish.  In a future dependent only upon "green energy" much of 
your lifestyle simply couldn't be supported.  I would wager that 
includes the cameras you use, the technology base that supports them and 
quite possibly even this list.  You would also commit the developing 
world to remaining where they are, to never enjoying the fruits of 
wealth and, especially, health that we enjoy today.  What is the chance 
they will accept such a dim future?  Where will their energy come from?

I'm an optimist and believe that technology will eventually provide us 
with plenty of clean and safe power, possibly in the form of thorium 
powered nuclear reactors or, better, something I can't even imagine 
today.  But in order to get to the long term we have to survive the 
short term.

Chuck Norcutt


On 3/23/2014 6:00 AM, philippe.amard@xxxxxx wrote:
> This is a short term view Nathan, on all counts I'm afraid :-(
>
>
> Amities
> Waste less want less Philippe
>
>
>
>
> Tous vos emails en 1 clic avec l'application SFR Mail sur iPhone et Android - 
> En savoir plus.
>
>
> ========================================
>
> Message du : 23/03/2014 00:22
> De : "Nathan Wajsman " <photo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> A : "Olympus Camera Discussion" <olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Copie à :
> Sujet : Re: [OM] [OT] In case you hadn't heard....
>
>
>   I think you mean fracking, not "tracking". If we in Europe are to have any 
> chance at all to influence the behaviour of rogue states like Russia, then we 
> must immediately start fracking on a big scale in places where shale oil is 
> likely to exist, such as the UK or Poland. We must also discard the stupid 
> antipathy against nuclear power. Otherwise, we will continue to depend on 
> various nasty regimes for our energy and will need to continue to prostitute 
> ourselves before the likes of Putin and various two-bit Central Asia 
> dictators.
>
> Cheers,
> Nathan
>
> Nathan Wajsman
> Alicante, Spain
> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> http://www.greatpix.eu
> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>
> YNWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 22, 2014, at 11:45 PM, Chris Barker wrote:
>
>> For me it’s because scientists have to guess first to find stuff out, Brian.
>>
>> And I don’t want to eat the results of someone’s guesswork, especially when 
>> there is no good reason so to do.  The idea of GM, as I understand it, is to 
>> reduce the need for pesticides and to improve yields.  But I heard some 
>> years ago that the pesticide argument didn’t work, that farmers merely 
>> became increasingly dependent on GM grain.  And increasing yield does 
>> nothing for taste or nutrition, again as I understand it.
>>
>> I hold no antipathy towards scientist, applied or theoretical, but I 
>> continue to resent the dominance of commercial interest in many scientific 
>> endeavours: it pollutes the results or at least reduces our trust in those 
>> results.
>>
>> It’s a bit of a stretch, I think, to attach people’s resistance to tracking 
>> to dependence on Russian energy: tracking has only recently been of interest 
>> to the public (not only the green lobby, but people who are near the 
>> threatened sites), whereas European dependence on energy has been increasing 
>> as North Sea oil reserves have dwindled.
>>
>> Where I really get irritated about tracking is if politicians start to use 
>> the cost of energy as an argument for such exploration.  It seems to be 
>> pretty certain that any gas or oil that we find in the UK would merely be 
>> fed into the whole market.  My general objection to tracking is that a) we 
>> must reduce our dependence on such energy, not grow ever more frantic and 
>> destructive in our urgency to seek out more; b) that it would grossly 
>> disfigure our landscape.  If some of us worry now about the visual 
>> deterioration of the countryside because of wind farms, just look at what 
>> thousands of drilling sites would might do.
>>
>> Finally, I accept that my criticism of science, Big Bang, GM or Higgs Boson 
>> was generally polemical.  But I remain seriously sceptical of wondrous 
>> solutions that hit the press
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 22 Mar 2014, at 22:12, Brian Gray  wrote:
>>
>>> As a retired applied scientist, I have to support Andrew in this argument.  
>>> Big
>>> bang theory seems a valid attempt to explain what happened although it 
>>> cannot ex
>>> plain the ultimate 'why'. And no one to my knowledge has produced any 
>>> weighty ar
>>> guments against GM foods in principle, however much one may regret some 
>>> particul
>>> ar versions, and none of Chris' aeroplanes would have flown without pretty 
>>> valid
>>> forms of aeronautical science.  My pet gripe at the moment is the way that 
>>> the
>>> 'green' lobby's activities over recent years against first nuclear power 
>>> and, no
>>> w in Europe, fracking have potentially crippled the western response to 
>>> events i
>>> n the Ukraine.  Energy independence from Russia for Europe would be more 
>>> immedia
>>> tely useful than the latest Typhoons and F16s.
>>>
>>> Returning to the original argument, having been brought up in NE England 
>>> and sub
>>> sequently worked in Denmark for a while, I have always been interested in 
>>> the wa
>>> y Tyneside slang and accents can resemble Danish words.
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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