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Re: [OM] How to take proper product pics outside (WB?)

Subject: Re: [OM] How to take proper product pics outside (WB?)
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:05:51 -0400
By coming in late to the discussion you've missed the main point which 
was to do this on the cheap (thus the brolly boxes) using the equipment 
he had on hand (two small tripods, two T20s and a T32 and a couple of 
T20 autoconnectors).  There was also much discussion of light tents. 
They can do a good (but not necessarily perfect) job of diffusion.  They 
also interfere with angles of view and rapid working.  Olaf apparently 
has hundreds (?) of items to be photographed and needs a true production 
environment.  I think he'll get where he needs to be after supplementing 
his brolly boxes with cheap foam core reflectors.  It's also possible 
that the brolly boxes just won't work out very well for the macro work 
if the "gleam lines" must be totally removed.  But the brolly boxes also 
have a secondary purpose which was to serve as a two light mini studio 
setup.  They're still desired even if they don't work in this setup.

One of my recommendations was to work on an open table top (ease of use) 
with soft light coming from large white sheets on the walls and ceiling. 
  But he is also faced with space limitations for a semi-permanent setup 
and his flash units may not have enough power to light a larger space 
while using small apertures.  He'd need more flash power or else move to 
continuous light.  Using diffused daylight is also out for a production 
environment since the lighting is not repeatable.

Chuck Norcutt


On 10/22/2010 12:29 AM, Moose wrote:
> On 10/21/2010 3:29 PM, Olaf Greve wrote:
>> ...
>> The results are pretty pleasing, but not perfect. If you consider this shot 
>> (full size, unedited):
>> http://www.millennics.com/test/PA215718.JPG
>>
>> The WB was not yet set properly; in reality, the backdrop is plain white.
>>
>> Now, my two main issues with the pictures are:
>> 1) Some shadows still occur. This was surprising to me. Perhaps the high, 
>> perpendicular, position of the flashes relative to the subject, caused that? 
>> Is this something that can easily be improved (reflector?
>> 45 degree angles from above? something else?)
>
> Shadows and WB are trivial to fix in PS.
> 1. Select background.
> 2. Filter=>Blur=>Average.
> 3. Unselect.
> 4. Levels or Curves=>  select central dropper, click on background.
>
>> 2) Another unexpected issue are the two 'gleam' lines running over the 
>> length of the subject.
>
> I don't think this can be fixed in post. The histogram spikes of the 
> reflections show that tonal detail is missing in
> both highlights and, less so, in shadows. Sure enough, working on them in PS 
> can change the brightnesses, but they
> become detailless areas.
>
> I haven't been following this thread, involving as it does lots of things I 
> know little or nothing about. I just looked
> up what brolly boxes are. I'm not sure either they or soft boxes will fully 
> do what you want.
>
> Look at the geometry. Reflection is from a small, curved surface. If you use 
> a small light source, you get a thin,
> bright line. The larger the source, the broader the line. Do a little drawing 
> of the set-up and do some ray tracing.
> You'll see that only light from  up to a certain angle reflects to the lens. 
> Beyond that, the reflections miss the lens,
> causing the dark lines.
>
> The geometry of a brolly box is worse than a soft box of equal size, as its 
> surface drops away from the subject,
> reducing its effective angular coverage. Ray tracing will show that a dark 
> line will persist until soft boxes touch.
> Brolly boxes can't quite do that, due to their shape. I'm not sure you can 
> completely avoid light/dark lines without a
> full, 180 deg. source.
>
> Was there discussion of using a light tent? That should be much better. Also, 
> this kind of subject is what the Oly T8
> flash head with large reflector was made for. At least in the samples I've 
> seen, it killed specular reflections from
> things like shiny watch innards so well they looked almost too flat. One 
> could fix that these days in post.
>
> If I understand your description of your set-up, getting the brollys up and 
> at 45 deg., so they come close or touch at
> the top edges should help.
>
>> To illustrate this, consider:
>> http://www.millennics.com/test/PA215718_with_comments.jpg
>>
>> Could it perhaps be that the light was not diffuse enough?
>
> Exactly, broad and diffuse.
>
> Moose
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