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Re: [OM] (OT) Down the rabbit hold

Subject: Re: [OM] (OT) Down the rabbit hold
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:34:37 -0400
The docs are so exercised about cholesterol (and statin drugs in 
particular) since the only sources of information for most of them are 
the drug company reps that visit them incessantly and the heavily biased 
drug trials in our corrupt medical journals.  Even if they read the 
journals all most ever read is the abstract.  Almost all drug research 
in the US and Europe is today funded totally by the drug companies who 
always manage to get the results they desire.  Richard Smith, former 
editor of the British Medical Journal tells how it is done here.
<http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020138>

A summary here:
-------------------------------------------------------
Examples of Methods for Pharmaceutical Companies to Get the Results They 
Want from Clinical Trials

       Conduct a trial of your drug against a treatment known to be
       inferior.

       Trial your drugs against too low a dose of a competitor drug.

       Conduct a trial of your drug against too high a dose of a
       competitor drug (making your drug seem less toxic).

       Conduct trials that are too small to show differences from
       competitor drugs.

       Use multiple endpoints in the trial and select for publication
       those that give favourable results.

       Do multicentre trials and select for publication results from
       centres that are favourable.

       Conduct subgroup analyses and select for publication those that
       are favourable.

       Present results that are most likely to impress—for example,
       reduction in relative rather than absolute risk.
---------------------------------------------------------

Smith left the BMJ because of the corrupting influence the drug 
companies were having on his publication.  He also commented that the 
American journals were much worse.

Cholesterol and statin drug research is particularly hard for the docs 
to understand even if they read the full journal articles.  Cholesterol 
research it totally based on epidemiological evidence.  There is no 
medicine involved as there is no credible biological explanation for why 
cholesterol causes heart disease.  The epidemiological evidence is, of 
course, purely statistical using simply awful methods such as 
unjustified use of single tail vs. two-tail tests of significance.  Even 
then the correlations are extremely weak.  To be fair, statin drugs do 
reduce the incidence of heart attack and stroke.  However, they work 
equally well whether you have high or low cholesterol.  The most likely 
reason that they work at all is that they also have an anti-inflammatory 
effect.  But the effect is no more effective than an aspirin or fish oil 
in the diet and those have little or no adverse effects.

I've tried to educate my own doc (whose office is always filled with 
drug reps) but his eyes just glass over when we get to the statistics. 
Not part of his education and he just quietly says "very interesting".

Using the studies from U of Hawaii and others having to do with 
cholesterol and the elderly I did manage to convince my 89 year old 
father's doc not to put him on cholesterol lowering drugs.  There are 
still some researchers that are independent of drug money but they are 
few and far between.

If you're really interested in this subject your eyes will be opened by 
reading at this site: <http://www.thincs.org/>  The primary mover here 
is a Swedish physician, Uffe Ravnskov, well published in the Lancet and 
elsewhere.  I got into this years ago by accidentally picking up his 
book "The Cholesterol Myths".  In it he speaks of the problem of drug 
company influence and of docs only reading the abstracts of papers.  He 
states that often these papers make claims in the abstracts that are not 
actually supported by the data in the paper.  I thought this was 
preposterous.  This is "peer reviewed" science.  I was ready to throw 
his book in the trash.  But before doing that I decided to check for 
myself.  I located two small (3 pages) papers on PubMed 
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/> that were small enough and 
sufficiently statistical (vs medical) that I could understand them 
without much difficulty.  Apart from my selection criteria the selection 
was random.  To my utter horror I discovered that both of these small 
papers made claims not actually supported by the data.  But these claims 
were not different from the more general cholesterol hysteria and would 
not be picked up or even suspected without careful examination of the 
actual data in the papers.

Unfortunately, "peer reviewed" in some circles has come to mean "buddy 
approved".

Chuck Norcutt






Moose wrote:
> On 6/19/2010 5:45 AM, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
>> 'tis a matter of opinion.  High cholesterol (by research at U of
>> Hawaii  and u of California at San Diego) has been shown to be
>> protective in the elderly.  Above the age of 65-70 the higher your
>> cholesterol the longer you live.
> 
> Never heard that.
> 
>> In fact, there is no association whatsoever between cholesterol and
>> heart disease in men over the age of 50 and in women of any age.
>> None.  Never has been.
>> 
> 
> So why are the docs so exercised about it?
> 
> I've completely ignored my cholesterol for well over ten years now,
> and don't plan to start monitoring it to see if I can get it up any
> more than I did to keep it down.
> 
> When I was in a heart study, they did measure it, but I paid little 
> attention.
> 
> Moose
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