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[OM] Re: The new digital discourse [was: Looking back and forward]

Subject: [OM] Re: The new digital discourse [was: Looking back and forward]
From: r.burnette@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:21:39 -0500
Hi Christos:

I am one of the oldest members of this list. Normally I am more of a lurker 
than a continuing contributor, but I am going to respond to your recent e-mail. 
Some on the list have attributed the petulant tones and arrogant attitudes 
displayed in your e-mail to the fact that English is a second language for you. 
I doubt that is the case. You appear to have an excellent command of English 
and your words seem to be deliberately chosen for effect. The crux of the 
matter is that you have a tendency to pontificate on certain matters in an 
elitist and condescending tone and then become offended when someone calls your 
hand on it. In addition, you are often deliberately abrasive. One wonders why? 
What prompts you to write some of the things you do? Are you trying to elevate 
us to your superior intellectual level? (One wonders what Freud might make of 
that need?)

In the below excerpt from your last e-mail you seem to have made an deliberate 
attempt to offend a large majority of the people on this list -- including 
those who had nothing to do with offending your sensibilities. (Again one 
wonders, "Why?" Do you always lash out at everyone when your feelings are 
hurt?) The terms you used to describe people you call the core of this list 
would indicate that you feel that you are personally superior to and disdainful 
of: gun owners, Christianity, people who believe in certain "old-fashioned" 
values (which seem to have served this country well to date), conservatives, 
Capitalism, Americans-in-general and any and all persons who do not share your 
personal belief system. 

>From your e-mail one might deduce that you consider yourself to be: anti-gun, 
>anti-Christian, anti-democratic, extraordinarily 
>enlightened-neo-progressive-Socialist-liberal-far left-non-American, 
>dishonorable and a loner (not a member of any clique) -- since these would 
>seem to be the opposite of the things you named. In addition, you appear 
>extremely arrogant and condescending in your apparent belief that you are more 
>intelligent and better educated than the rest of the people on this list. Most 
>of us are well aware of the differences between capitalism and socialism. I'll 
>wager that most of us can even spell the terms correctly. (May I suggest that 
>you ponder at your leisure the way those quite different political systems 
>have served the people who have embraced them and compare the current state of 
>those political entities?) 

It is perfectly all right for you to have those beliefs. Freedom to believe as 
you choose and to express those beliefs is one of those "old 
ideas-neo-conservative-far right-American" values guaranteed by our 
constitution. However, if you are determined to present ideas in controversial 
ways, do not be upset if others on the list feel free to let you know that they 
disagree. May I suggest that often it is not what you have to say, but rather 
the way you say it that offends. No one seems to take issue with everything you 
say. As I said earlier, I don't think that you are misunderstood because 
English is your second language. I would surmise that you talk to the list in 
the same way you talk to everyone -- including those to whom you speak in your 
mother tongue. That is one characteristic of youth. (At 73, you are young to 
me.) Young adults at times think that every else in the world is dumber than a 
rock. Honestly, we are not. How do you think we kept the world together long en
 ough for you to get here?

I have enjoyed your photos and your contributions to the photographic nature of 
this list. This is a fine group of people with at least one common interest and 
various individuals have shared a wealth of photographic information with list 
members. I hope that you can see the value of that and continue to be a part of 
it. However, if pleasant exchanges between members proves to be too much of a 
burden to bear (for you or any other list member), may I suggest that 
unsubscribing from the list is a viable option. This is not a forum for 
personal disagreements.

Happy New Year to you and yours,

Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: Christos Stavrou <christos.stavrou@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 13:48

< Damn, we sociologists... how we dare to use these words.. capitalism,
profit, industry interests, cultural discourse (wow), social critique
(double wow!) in this list? Even if they DO relate to what cameras we
can buy and our choices and our understanding of photography in
general...Yet, they must sound overly intellectual.. and I am SAD to
realise right now, even so ''offending'' or ''divisive'' to a list,
whose core is dominated by few 'guns and christianity',
old-ideas-neo-conservative-far-right-american honourable clique who
pad each other in the back, and probably when went to school
''capitalism'' was a forbidden word!!.. yeah, welcome to the real
world baby! >

> C.S.
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