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Re: [OM] ON1 NoNoise AI

Subject: Re: [OM] ON1 NoNoise AI
From: Wayne Shumaker <om3ti@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 08:46:53 -0700
At 7/26/2021 03:05 PM, Moose wrote:
>On 7/23/2021 8:40 AM, Wayne Shumaker wrote:
>>And we have another one joining the noisy AI bandwagon.
>Interesting, and a little bit frustrating:
>He gives no information about settings, other than a screen shot that suggests 
>he used Denoise's auto settings. Then he dismisses the three other Modes.
>I've used Denoise at least hundreds of times, maybe over a thousand. As 
>Denoise has progressed, the Auto settings seem to have improved, but they 
>often aren't right. And "Standard" Mode isn't always the best option, esp. at 
>higher ISOs and more noise.
>So, I hesitate to take his Denoise examples as definitive. Likewise, if he's 
>sloppy with Denoise, how would I know if he's using the ON1 product at its 
>I wouldn't use the Raw conversion of either product; third rate. That Topaz 
>works well as a PS plug-in gives it a big work flow advantage.
>Credit where due for using several different examples. Tough assignment, with 
>lots of options and limited resources. OTOH, it means his conclusions aren't 
>useful to me.
>BUT - for me, it ignores a significant side benefit of the Denoise training. 
>It makes the best capture sharpener I've seen. I know that's not what it's 
>sold as, but it's terrific.
>Because it's what I was working on at the time, and I had a subject with a 
>wide range of colors, , brightness, detail, textures, etc., this examples are 
>from the Panny ZS200, 1" sensor. 
>Even with the shadows raised a bit, there's no noise problem, so I don't need 
>a noise remover. But look at the increase in clear detail! If you don't at 
>first see a difference between the last two, look around at different parts. 
>If you don't see a different between the first two, get your eyes checked.
>Les Informed Moose

You still need to do the MoosePhotoBlog!

It did take some close observation to see the differences in your images at 
first. I have noticed with Sharpen AI, at the 100% crop view, some definite 
artifacts occur, particularly with the auto settings, as you have noted. Hence 
your observation that Denoise AI clear is a good sharpener.

Some discussion on PureRaw:
Seems people are to easily convinced about "truth" with anecdotal samples.

We are creatures that easily make conclusions based on symptoms or anecdotal 
examples, while deeper investigation often reveals something else entirely.

What I thought was interesting is that such AI software is not allowed for 
competition such as National Audubon Society. Is the AI denoise really a 

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