On 10/16/2013 10:12 AM, Ken Norton wrote:
>> Another old saw of which I was unaware? Or a slightly old saw, young enough
>> that I missed it?
>> Obvious BS in any case. Do people pay real attention to this kind of
>> silliness?
>> Whoever coined it had obviously not spent enough hours at learning his*
>> trade.
>> No B. S. Moose
>> * No her would do such a silly thing.
>
> I don't know what to say, Moose. As others are well aware of it, I can
> only assume that you are spending far too much time travelling around,
> camping and taking pictures.
I think our differences here may be primarily definitional and perhaps
generational. This definition of 'old saw' fits
well with mine:
"Idioms & Phrases
*old saw *
A proverb or maxim, as in /Mom's always repeating the old saw, "Haste makes
waste." /This term uses /saw /in the sense
of "saying," and /old /in the sense of "wise" rather than old-fashioned.
[Second half of 1400s]"
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OTOH, the 10,000 hour rule was created by Malcolm Gladwell and revealed to the
world in his book /*Outliers: The Story
of Success,*/ published on November 18, 2008.
Thus, it is simply not an 'old saw'.
> The premise, which I don't dispute, is that it takes about five years
> of full-time employment in a particular trade to become satisfactorily
> expert at it. This does square up with my own experience and that of
> the work world as I've seen it.
Without spending way too much time on a detailed reply, I'll say that my
experience of over 30 years in the headquarters
of a Fortune 500 company does not agree. Five years as an average, with a large
std. deviation? Maybe, but how does one
prove it?
I do know of a great example of someone otherwise deeply incompetent at all but
brown nosing taking five years to do
something wildly incompetent, and costly, enough to get fired. :-)
> In fact, the typical apprenticeship lasts about this long for most skilled
> trades.
Yet the apprentice period is not only for learning, but part of a system for
controlling access to a trade and keeping
earnings for journeymen higher than they otherwise might be. I'm not saying
it's not useful for trying to assure
competence, but that it is mixed up with other purposes.
Guilds started this game hundreds of years ago.
Also, I would assert that it does not, at least in the present, prevent many
people practicing many trades, from masonry
to medicine, who are less than minimally competent.
> So, I'm challenging your challenge to my old saw, because I think it
> is not only very well known, but generally accepted the world over.
Your criterion of well known does not meet the definition of old saw. I also do
not believe that something first
proposed not quite five years ago is generally accepted everywhere, although it
may be so in your industry. It's not
even old enough to be deemed competent itself. :-)
Disagreeing Moose
--
What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
--
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