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Re: [OM] Oly 4/3 vs m4/3 lens mounts and adapters

Subject: Re: [OM] Oly 4/3 vs m4/3 lens mounts and adapters
From: "Jim Nichols" <jhnichols@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 12:07:31 -0500
Chuck,

I can't really picture all of the combinations you are trying, but, from 
your comments about bellows travel, I wondered if you had tried adding an 
extension tube to the bellows.  I have had to use that combination with some 
of my lens experiments.

Jim Nichols
Tullahoma, TN USA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Norcutt" <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Olympus Camera Discussion" <olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [OM] Oly 4/3 vs m4/3 lens mounts and adapters


>I played with a couple of other lenses yesterday to see if it was
> possible to achieve 0.5X with the E-M5 and slide copier.  Not with what
> I have available.  I was going to try my Zuiko 35-70 (49mm filter)
> before I remembered I'd given it to my granddaughter.  So I tried my
> Soligor 35-70/2.5 (not 49mm filter) at 60 and 70mm but it didn't work.
> Just like the 50/3.5 macro the bellows collapses on itself before you
> reach focus and you can't get the body close enough to the lens.  I then
> tried the Zuiko 85/2 (also 49mm filter) but the entire bellows focusing
> rail isn't long enough to get an 85mm lens to focus before the rear
> standard carrying the body falls off the end of the rail.  I'm beginning
> to suspect that even the Zuiko 80/4 macro might be an iffy situation for
> 0.5X.  The specs say that 0.5X is its minimum but it that's off even
> slightly in might not fit the image.
>
> I think the only way to make it work reliably is to make a custom
> OM-m4/3 adapter for use with the 50mm macro that would allow going down
> to 0.5x instead of a minimum of 0.68X.  The OM->m4/3 adapter's normal
> length is about 20mm.  What's needed is something with about 15mm
> removed between the two mounts.
>
> I also tried the 5D at 1:1 with the 50/3.5 macro but wasn't much
> impressed with the image quality I got.  I should probably just quit
> messing around and go back to the scanner.
>
> Chuck Norcutt
>
>
> On 5/20/2013 4:49 AM, Piers Hemy wrote:
>> With the proviso that I haven't tried it yet, I think a 55mm-49mm step 
>> down
>> ring with an empty 49mm filter would do the job, and would then point the
>> way to use lenses with filters other than 55mm. Why, with a 62-49 ring 
>> you
>> could even use the legendary 35-80! Although in that instance "Why?" 
>> might
>> be more than appropriate.
>>
>> Piers
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chuck Norcutt [mailto:chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: 20 May 2013 03:57
>> To: Olympus Camera Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [OM] Oly 4/3 vs m4/3 lens mounts and adapters
>>
>> But it's also useful on the bellows when using a lens with 55mm filter to
>> attach the bellows or slide copier shade to the lens... if you could find
>> one.  :-)
>>
>> Chuck Norcutt
>>
>>
>> On 5/19/2013 9:58 AM, Mark Dapoz wrote:
>>>
>>> I see what you mean now.  Yes, I have the actual product and all of the
>> original documentation that came with it.  I think this confusion comes 
>> down
>> to a "translation" error.  The original Japanese instruction sheet 
>> correctly
>> depicts  the adapter without any threads while the English translated one
>> shows some threads.  Here's a comparison of the two documents:
>>>
>>> http://olympus.dementix.org/misc/copy_stand_adapters.jpg
>>>
>>> This 55 -> 49 adapter is really only useful for the copy stand.
>>>
>>> -mark
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-May-19, at 7:32 AM, Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's a great find but we're apparently coming at our views from
>>>> different sources.  If I read you correctly you're looking at the
>>>> *actual product* and stating that the outside of the 49mm end is not
>>>> threaded and the inside has ridges.  What I've been looking at is the
>>>> handy_copy_stand.pdf.  That's a copy of the user's manual in PDF form
>>>> that was included in the eSIF as distributed on CD.  That clearly
>>>> shows the 55/49mm adapter to have threads on the outside of the 49mm
>>>> end as would a 49mm filter.  The interior ridges are not illustrated.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/18/2013 9:29 PM, Mark Dapoz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I had to dig out my sample of the copy stand to figure out exactly
>>>>> what is going on.   The 43 -> 49 and 22.5,43.5 -> 49 adapters do
>>>>> indeed have threads only on the smaller side, the 49mm copy stand
>>>>> side is completely smooth.  The 55 -> 49 adapter on the other hand
>>>>> appears to have threads on both sides of the adapter, but on closer
>>>>> inspection the 49mm side "threads" aren't really threads.  The
>>>>> inside of the adapter has ridges which makes it appear to have
>>>>> threads but they aren't.  I suppose Olympus did this to cut down on
>>>>> any light reflection since the adapter is going into a larger lens
>>>>> opening.  So the illustration in the SIF is correct, only the
>>>>> assumption that they're threads is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>> -mark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13-May-18, at 7:45 PM, Chuck Norcutt
>>>>> <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what you refer to as the "SIF" other than source
>>>>>> documents for the eSIF that I don't have.  But the eSIF does
>>>>>> reference the user's manual for the Handy Copy Stand which does
>>>>>> show the 3 adapters available for it.  One of those is the 49/55
>>>>>> and, as you stated, the drawing shows the 49mm side as threaded
>>>>>> whereas the other two adapters are not threaded on both sides.  I
>>>>>> agree.  It must be an error.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/18/2013 4:00 PM, piers@xxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>>>> The 55-49 adapter appears in the SIF (not eSIF, where it is said
>>>>>>> to be optional) as part of the Handy Copy Stand set, for just the
>>>>>>> same application, and the illustration is consistent with your
>>>>>>> description, except it has a thread on the 49mm end. I think
>>>>>>> that's an error, as the smaller adaptors don't have a thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18/05/2013, Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> The next question is whether the 49/55 adapter was originally
>>>>>>>> supplied with the bellows.  Does anyone actually have one of
>>>>>>>> these and does it look as I described that I think it must look?
>>>>>>>> Searching the eSIF (briefly) did not reveal such a part to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've got to think about how to replicate a part like that for
>>>>>>>> reversing my 90/2.5 Viv S1 macro which a 58mm filter.  If there's
>>>>>>>> a 49 to 55mm filter adapter that would work.  You'd need the ring
>>>>>>>> from the 49mm filter to make a 51mm diameter attachment point for
>>>>>>>> the bellows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2013 3:03 AM, piers@xxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Splendid stuff, Chuck, it all does now make sense in a way that
>>>>>>>>> eSIF and SIF (which I also reviewed) don't even approach. It was
>>>>>>>>> late, I didn't follow my own advice to just try it!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 18/05/2013, Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> You're inferring stuff rather than actually measuring the
>>>>>>>>>> bellows.  I have done my due diligence and discovered that the
>>>>>>>>>> eSIF is perfectly correct.  The reason that a Series VI is used
>>>>>>>>>> is that hole is supposed to take a filter... a Series VI size
>>>>>>>>>> filter... which Wiki tells me thus: Series
>>>>>>>>>> number Filter size Adapter ring VI 41.3 mm
>> 44 mm My
>>>>>>>>>> handy dandy millimeter rule tells me that the thread on the
>>>>>>>>>> back of the lens board is (whaddya know) 44mm.  I discovered
>>>>>>>>>> that very quickly since no 49mm filter would fit there.  That
>>>>>>>>>> threaded hole is specifically for a filter and not for
>>>>>>>>>> reversing lenses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once again, the bellows manual tells you nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>> filter provision.  Your confusion about reversing lenses I
>>>>>>>>>> think comes about from assuming that it's done the way you
>>>>>>>>>> would on a camera body by attaching two lenses together joined
>>>>>>>>>> by a male threaded ring with threads on each side to match the
>>>>>>>>>> lenses to be joined.  You've assumed that the
>>>>>>>>>> 49/55 adapter is one of those rings... but it is not.  It has a
>>>>>>>>>> totally different function and isn't really 49mm on one end.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once you turn the front lens board around you don't need any
>>>>>>>>>> sort of threaded adapter since the OM lens mount on the lens
>>>>>>>>>> board is now facing the camera.  Just install the lens on the
>>>>>>>>>> normal lens mount and it, like the lens board, is now reversed.
>>>>>>>>>> Where the 49/55 adapter comes in has to do with attaching the
>>>>>>>>>> bellows itself to the lens.  The attaching ring normally
>>>>>>>>>> attaches to a ring on the back of the lens board that is about
>>>>>>>>>> 51mm diameter... or the outside diameter of a lens having a
>>>>>>>>>> 49mm filter. When you reverse a lens having a 49mm filter the
>>>>>>>>>> bellows attaching ring fits over the lens in the same way as it
>>>>>>>>>> does the ring on the back of the lens board.  But when you use
>>>>>>>>>> a lens with 55mm filter the lens is too large.  It needs a
>>>>>>>>>> step-down ring.  Now, since I have never seen one of these
>>>>>>>>>> step-down rings I can only conclude that it has a 55mm thread
>>>>>>>>>> on one end and a 51mm unthreaded ring on the other such that it
>>>>>>>>>> presents the same diameter to the bellows attaching ring as the
>>>>>>>>>> ring on the back side of the lens board.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or something like that.  If you know something else correct me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/17/2013 6:23 PM, Piers Hemy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Without looking at the Bellows manual I would opine that it
>>>>>>>>>>> would be surprising to find that Olympus did not use the
>>>>>>>>>>> 49/55mm thread there, as it is intended for reversing OM
>>>>>>>>>>> lenses on the (reversed) front standard. Why would they use a
>>>>>>>>>>> thread incompatible with all and any of their own lenses? And
>>>>>>>>>>> in place of reading a secondary source (useful as the eSIF
>>>>>>>>>>> is), why not try it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I did look at the 12/81 edition of the Auto Bellows manual,
>>>>>>>>>>> and guess what?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And so is the eSIF, only more wronger (!)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's a 49mm thread, as "The adapter ring 55-49mm is needed to
>>>>>>>>>>> reverse the Macro 55mm F1.2 on the bellows" (p 14). Granted,
>>>>>>>>>>> they described the 55/1.2 as a Macro lens, which it isn't, but
>>>>>>>>>>> it does have a 55mm filter thread, from which I conclude the
>>>>>>>>>>> bellows has only a 49mm thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: 17 May 2013
>>>>>>>>>>> 22:26 To: Olympus Camera Discussion Subject: Re: [OM] Oly
>>>>>>>>>>> 4/3 vs m4/3 lens mounts and adapters
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I tried the focusing stage since Wayne said he'd gotten such
>>>>>>>>>>> an arrangement to work with his Pen and, if it worked, would
>>>>>>>>>>> require nothing more than what I already have.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't come up with your solution since I've never
>>>>>>>>>>> completely read the bellows description in the eSIF which is,
>>>>>>>>>>> I think, the only place that tells you that the back of the
>>>>>>>>>>> lens board is threaded.  But it looks like you need to re-read
>>>>>>>>>>> it yourself :-) since the thread is for a Series VI filter and
>>>>>>>>>>> is not a 49/55 filter thread.
>>>>>>>>>>> Nevertheless, your solution should work given the right bits
>>>>>>>>>>> and pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But re-reading the eSIF to understand what you had written
>>>>>>>>>>> caused me to think about reversing the lens which might
>>>>>>>>>>> provide a bit more room to maneuver since it moves the thick
>>>>>>>>>>> base of the lens board to the back side. Maybe.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the memory jog.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/17/2013 5:35 AM, Piers Hemy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I may have missed something obvious, but why are you using
>>>>>>>>>>>> the focusing stage? Remove the rear standard (camera mounting
>>>>>>>>>>>> board) and bellows from the bellows rail, and use the 49/55mm
>>>>>>>>>>>> filter threads on the back of the front standard (lens board)
>>>>>>>>>>>> to mount the OM-D.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You'll need a 55mm m4/3 reverse adaptor such as
>>>>>>>>>>>> 271191801433 on the auction site, and a female-female filter
>>>>>>>>>>>> adaptor such as this:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.camera-filters.com/index.php?main_page=product_inf
>>>>>>>>>>>> o&cPath=4
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> 31&pro
>>>>>>>>>>>> ducts_id=7214
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You may also need a blank filter ring to get extra
>>>>>>>>>>>> separation, but I'm sure you'll work that out!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: 16 May
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013 18:04 To: Olympus Camera Discussion Subject: Re:
>>>>>>>>>>>> [OM] Oly 4/3 vs m4/3 lens mounts and adapters
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm removing the grain of salt.  I mounted the E-M5 on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> focusing stage, installed the OM adapter and some OM
>>>>>>>>>>>> extension tubes and then put the OM body mount from the
>>>>>>>>>>>> bellows onto the end of the tubes. Running the body mount
>>>>>>>>>>>> into the bellows connector resulted in the E-M5 setting in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> non-level position on the focusing stage.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think my guess of 3mm (maybe 2mm) vertical misalignment may
>>>>>>>>>>>> be about right but it's not the height of the body or lens
>>>>>>>>>>>> center lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I had assumed that the OM body was lower and would align
>>>>>>>>>>>> properly. Nope, the two camera's lens centers appear to be at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same height so an OM-1 on the focusing stage doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> align either.  The problem of vertical misalignment is caused
>>>>>>>>>>>> by the height of the focusing stage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2013 11:15 AM, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A quick and very rough measurement looks like the vertical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> centerline of the E-M5 is about 3mm higher than an OM body.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But take that with a grain of salt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, like the E-P1 the tripod thread is off center from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lens center by about 9mm.  That, however, could likely be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> solved by drilling and tapping a new hole in the focusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stage. I'll take a better measurement later since this has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some promise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2013 8:17 AM, Wayne Harridge wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G'day Chuck,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something like this should work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.structuregraphs.com/RandomStuff/15-May-20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>> Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Options: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/listinfo/olympus
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>>>> Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>> Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
>>
> -- 
> _________________________________________________________________
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> Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
>
> 


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