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Re: [OM] iPhone et al

Subject: Re: [OM] iPhone et al
From: "Bill Pearce" <bs.pearce@xxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 08:37:51 -0500
You make some good points. A friend was an electronics engineer of some
talent, ad was in fact involved in the development of the Heathkit computer.
We were discussing the "new thing" once, what was called then the "home
computer." His comment? "It won't be a success until it's like a typewriter.
Everyone uses one, but only a very few can fix one." He wasn't entirely
right, but it is a good idea, one that has yet to be reached.

 

Bill Pearce

 

From: Moose [mailto:olymoose@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:38 AM
To: Olympus Camera Discussion
Subject: Re: [OM] iPhone et al

 

On 10/31/2010 10:06 AM, Jan Steinman wrote:
>> From: Moose<olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> On 10/29/2010 6:59 AM, Bob Whitmire wrote:
>>> As Chris pointed out, Apple-Q will do the trick.
>> As will Alt-F4 in Windoze. And I'll freely admit the Mac keyboard
shortcut is the more intuitive of the two.
> There's probably a way to do this in Windows as well, but you can easily
re-map ANY keypress via the Keyboard System Preference. You can make your
Mac quit any application with Alt-F4 if you choose.

Damn! I'm like a dog with a bone. I should quit this thread, but keep
chewing.

I'm talking from the viewpoint of the low-tech user. Sure, you can re-map
the keyboard, but all that would do is confuse
them. I'm not saying the Mac should use Alt-F4. I'm talking about making key
functions intuitive and transparent to the
casual user.

>> Not saying there is anything wrong with Macs or their OS. Only that this
aspect of it is inconsistent with their claims to be open and intuitive to
operate.
> It's not so clear which behaviour we should call less open and less
intuitive. Closing a window quits an application is supposed to be "open and
intuitive?" I find it the opposite! Closing a window means closing a window
-- no more, no less! THAT seems more "open and intuitive" to me.

No, no, no! The users I'm talking about don't know, don't want to know, and
don't care about the technical difference
between a window and an app. To them, when a window pops up and they work in
it, that IS the app.

You and I know the difference; I've spent many, many hours programming them.
But the folks who just want to get the work
done don't know things like that. I've programmed and supported quite a few
apps. Use of some was an important part of
clerical folks' jobs. Others are used by top management. Both have to be
highly transparent and intuitive. The former so
the grunts can be efficient and remain mostly sane and the latter so the
technically unsophisticated, but powerful,
don't complain and can make their important decisions.

Yup, I didn't use the standard Windoze drop down menu interface.  Lordy it's
slow when you have to drill down to where
the actual work takes place. "File=>Print=> click OK" in pop-up print menu,
feh! Click on the Print button or Ctrl-P and
out comes the report for the data on the page you are looking at. Most Mac
apps I've used use the same sort of,
standard, hierarchical, programming model as Win apps.

I've has to walk them through using hem when there is a problem. You can't
believe how difficult that can be. You tell
them to don one thing, and one thing only, then tell you what happens. The
you hear the keyboard clicking ... "What did
you just do?" Oh, just what I always do." And of course that turns out to be
the problem, as often as not.

I provide Carol with a computer and am her tech support. She is smart and
adept on her computer at the things she wants
to do on it. If I started telling her the difference between a window and an
app, she would either start looking blank
as she tuned out or ask me why she should know or care.

And that's the point. She shouldn't have to know. She should be able to
click on an icon to start a program*, use it,
then click on an icon to close it. I thought that kind of transparency was
what the Apple interface was supposed to be
about.

Dogged Moose

* Yes, I have icons for everything she uses on a task bar. I don't use the
built-in Windoze one, for my own reasons. But
in case you aren't familiar, Win from at least XP has a task bar along the
bottom. Most apps give the option of creating
a start icon there when being installed. (Apple apps are the primary,
annoying exceptions, installing both desktop and
taskbar icons every single time they are installed or updated. Stupid gits.)

So ... the garden variety Windoze user doesn't have to get into any menu(s)
at all to run their programs. One click, and
it starts.



> (As I pointed out earlier, there are Mac apps where closing the window
*does* quit the application. But these are always applications -- like
System Preferences -- that do not allow more than one window open, and that
do not have "New" or "Open" options.)
>
> What you're used to colours your opinions. Those who have always "known"
that closing a window closes the application can't imagine the usefulness of
any other way, but I often will close the last window of an application,
then use "File -->  Open..." (CMD-O) or "File -->  New" (CMD-N) to start
working on something else -- an option that is denied me in Windows. In
Windows, I have to navigate the file hierarchy to find the file I want to
open, or use the "Start" menu.
>
> I'll go along with your statement if you preface it with "Lacking other
experience, in my opinion..." But otherwise, my experience leads me to think
of the Mac window closing behaviour as *more* open and intuitive.
>
> But we are all products of our experience, no?
>
> ----------------
> It is the weak who are cruel. Gentleness can only be expected from the
strong. -- Leo Roskin
> :::: Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ::::
>

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