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Re: [OM] ( DZ OM ) Value for money?

Subject: Re: [OM] ( DZ OM ) Value for money?
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:22:49 -0400
I had not read this before and you raise some interesting and perplexing 
questions.  I knew they were using DXO something and, since they show 
resolution in excess of the sensor resolution, I had assumed (bad) that 
they were measuring the lens independent of the sensor and also with the 
sensor since the tests clearly use a particular camera.  You are 
right... where does the lens resolution beyond the sensor Nyquist limit 
come from?

Without a separate test of the lens independent of the camera, the only 
thing I can think of is a backwards calculation from system MTF (their 
measurment) and sensor MTF (defined by pixel count?) to derive the 
presumed lens MTF.  Whether such a thing is even possible I haven't the 
slightest idea.  It's an intriguing question.

Chuck Norcutt

Moose wrote:
> Chuck Norcutt wrote:
>> The lens resolution is not tested with the sensor.  
> 
> "In practice this is an oversimplification; our tests measure system MTF 
> rather than purely lens MTF, and at frequencies close to Nyquist the 
> camera's anti-aliasing filter will have a significant effect in 
> attenuating the measured MTF50. In addition, our testing procedure 
> involves shooting a chart of fixed size, which therefore requires a 
> closer shooting distance on full frame, and this will also have some 
> influence on the MTF50 data."
> 
>> It's tested with DXO's measuring gear and the results are plotted against 
>> the Nyquist frequency of the sensor.  It appears that you did not actually 
>> look at the test data I referenced 
> 
> 
> Well I did. The above quote is from the test page you referred to and 
> the following is from the methodology discussion page for their tests in 
> general:
> -------------------------------------------------
> "How The Test Data is Shot
> By Andy Westlake
> 
> 
>         Sharpness
> 
> Test images for are shot in RAW at the camera's base ISO, and processed 
> using a common converter (Adobe Camera Raw) with all sharpening disabled 
> – this eliminates any differences from in-camera processing. Using RAW 
> is crucial, as many current cameras can apply lens aberration correction 
> to JPEGs - most notably Nikon DSLRS such as the D3, D300, D70 and D90 
> feature automatic correction of lateral chromatic aberration, and the 
> Canon 50D features automatic peripheral illumination (falloff) 
> correction. Using JPEGs from these cameras for testing would therefore 
> not provide a true description of the lens itself.
> 
> Sharpness is calculated from the slanted-edge patterns arranged across 
> the frame; the test chart has four ‘arms’ extending from the centre to 
> each corner of the frame, and the sharpness data we display is obtained 
> by averaging the results from each, to give the most accurate 
> representation of the lens’s performance."
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
>> or you would have seen that lens resolution did indeed exceed the sensor at 
>> some points. That would not have been possible to measure using the sensor.
>>   
> 
> Exactly! And that's why I commented on how weird it was to publish this 
> "maximum theoretical resolution of the camera body used for testing" 
> along with MTF data showing higher values.
> 
> What you suggest would indeed make sense if they are in fact using bench 
> testing equipment, but that's not what they say they are doing.
> 
> Have I missed something on their site?
> 
> Moose
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