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Re: [OM] E1 sensor

Subject: Re: [OM] E1 sensor
From: "Danrich" <danrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:52:51 -1000
The crystal ball says:
In 4 years CMOS and CCD will be replace by a new capture chip.
And just to throw it in, by 2023 knowledge will double every 7 months.
Dan


I think Moose has pegged it on every point here. 
The only way to know what the future holds for digital in general, or
any digital system in particular is to live long enough to find out.
Predictions and statements of fact based on crystal ball-gazing are
bullshit.

Further, I would point out that the present E-1 is Olympus's entry point
in the pro DSLR race. And if you compare this as an entry point to what
it's entry-point competition was, they're ahead on a number of fronts.

What does the future hold - who knows, other than the fact that it will
be something in the 4/3 format. But it could be a 7-8-9-10-11 mgp chip;
it could, as Moose notes, be a CMOS chip; it could be a Foveon chip. 

And finally, Moose is particularly dead-on right when he notes that a
first rate 5 mgp chip is all that's necessary for all but the most
demanding enlargement work. You can get some astoundingly good prints
out of the 14mg files produced by the present E-1 chip - and have no
idea that they came from a 5 mgp chip.

This whole mgp thing is really becoming such a typical 'mine is bigger
than yours' competition - or the modern photography version of the old
automotive horsepower arguments.;-)

B. D.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Moose
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 12:09 AM
To: olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [OM] E1 sensor


This argument depends on a complete lack of improvement in sensor 
performance, highly unlikey in my view. And the need for more than 12mp 
in a 35mm equivalent DC.

Noise performance of CCD sensors will continue to improve and there is 
no reason an E series body could not be made with CMOS, Foveon, or 
whatever other sensor technology comes along. I'm not predicting long 
term success for the E or 4/3 systems, only that the argument that they 
are doomed by size/resolution/noise constraints based on current sensor 
limitations are suspect.

I'm not at all convinced that anything more than a really first rate 5mp

is really necessary for any thing but the most demanding enlargement 
work to meet or surpass 35mm. Take that up to 12mp in an E-x and you are

certainly into territory where technique will almost always be more of a

limitation than the sensor resolution. I don't use a tripod all the time

and often make compromises in speed, DOF, etc. such that the results 
don't reflect the best sharpness that the camera, lens and film can 
deliver. Is digital somehow going to magically make me do better in 
those departments? Sure, I can use super fine grain film, my big heavy 
tripod, etc. for a few shots, but they aren't anywhere near the majority

of shots that I want to take.

I know about all the numeric calculations, but don't think they reflect 
what real people see in prints and on screens. I've made lovely 8x10s 
from comewhat cropped 2mp images. Checking out some of the full frame 
5-6mp stuff on the netm  find them very impressive.

Moose

C.H.Ling-Accura wrote:

>I bet it will never go beyond 12MP. Noise is a big issue for small 
>sensors.
>  
>
Bill Pearce wrote:

>This was Reichmann's point, the smaller sensor could be made in higher 
>pixel counts, but larger pixels are needed for increased speed and 
>decreased noise. He feels that this is the system's Achilles' heel, and

>will limit its life as a commercial product, as it is rapidly rendered 
>obsolete.
>  
>
Jez.Cunningham@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>The only answer to low noise (needs big pixels) AND high resolution 
>(needs lot of 'em) is a BIG chip - a.k.a. 'full frame'.
>



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