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Re: [OM] Flare redux: Sun Stars?

Subject: Re: [OM] Flare redux: Sun Stars?
From: Joel Wilcox <jowilcox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 14:14:31 -0600
At 01:55 PM 12/9/2001 +0100, Thomas you wrote:
A little more technically, every light source is a source of waves and it's only by catching *all* the light that a lens can reproduce a perfect picture of the source itself. By using obstacles of different shapes you are in fact choosing what kind of information to include in the picture, and therefore also which imperfections to be stuck with in the image. The mathematics behind this is definitely not suitable for ASCII communication.

For my part then, I'm grateful for ASCII limitations! but also for your attempt to provide an explanation for someone who didn't even take HS physics.

The sun star diffraction seems almost by definition to occur only in photographs of light sources.

The diffraction occurs everywhere in photography, every point your lens is imaging is smeared in the same way. It is however very weak, and it's only in these special circumstances (very bright sources on dark surroundings) that you'll be able to see it directly. Take a look at Gary Reese's lens tests, and you'll see that as lenses are stopped down their contrast will suffer. Guess why...

I hadn't put that together at all. When people say, as I have sometimes heard, that the 75-150/4 is flare-prone, I guess I should truck out this image.

I've added another image with sun stars to the page I posted earlier:

http://soli.inav.net/~jdub/sunstar.html

The new image is the first one on the page. This is a sunset image in which there are two sets of sun stars created by the sun itself. I didn't take the photo with any notion that I would get sun stars. Rather I was hoping to catch the beams breaking through the clouds. I got a bit of that and a bonus with the sun stars, I think.

This is interesting but not different from the previous examples. You have a cloud in front of the sun, effectively dividing the sun into two light sources. You'll see that both sources have their own "sun stars", or diffraction stars.

Yeah, I was just wondering if what John refers to as the "glory" light or beams is also a species of diffraction, but one happening "in front of the camera" -- like light breaking over a cloud as light "breaks" over the diaphragm. "Diffraction" literally means "breaking apart." (I'm a little better linguist than a physicist, but not very good at that either.)

A bad lens will degrade images of everything, but a SC lens won't smear your "sun stars" more than it will smear your clouds, rocks, or whatever. Lens construction could possibly play a role, but that has to do with placement of the aperture, definitly not with coatings.
Keep shooting these great pictures, don't worry about the lenses.

Regards,
Thomas Bryhn

PS! Have you ever tried squinting at the sun?

Squinting at car headlights more. (Is that what you're getting at?) I sometimes do that to accentuate the star effect, and other times put on glasses to sharpen it up or reduce it. Is squinting the equivalent of stopping down the lens? Is that why you're supposed to stop down in order to get this effect better?

The genesis of all these questions is a comment/critique from my brother about the smallness of the sun star in my Lake of the Clouds photo. I was wondering if some lenses make bigger sun stars because of their formula. Henceforth, I'll assume not.

Thanks again for your explanations, John Lind also you for yours, and Mark M-L for your explanation and links. (I'll let you and John settle the glory business!)

Cheers to all,
Joel W.


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