To follow up on Charlie's comments... I actually spent about 2 hours
last night going through many of Brian's links. The very first thing I
realized is that his shock at the medical establishment's ignorance of
the wondrous advance presented by the 1998 Nobel prize for medicine is
totally misplaced. Medicine hasn't ignored it because there is no
"miracle" there to ignore. The award page itself says the award is "for
their discoveries concerning nitric oxide as a signalling molecule in
the cardiovascular system" In particular it says
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nitric oxide (NO) is a gas that transmits signals in the organism.
Signal transmission by a gas that is produced by one cell, penetrates
through membranes and regulates the function of another cell represents
an entirely new principle for signalling in biological systems. The
discoverers of NO as a signal molecule are awarded this year's Nobel Prize."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The significant bits have nothing to do with L-Arginine, cardio-vascular
disease, life extension, vegan diets or any other things. It is ALL
about the discovery that a *gas* (NO) can act as a *signaling* device in
a biological system... period. The fact that NO happens to act on the
endothelial system is incidental to the discovery that it's a gas that's
doing the deed. A previously unknown role for a gas in the body. End
of Nobel prize story.
Before this started I knew little of L-arginine other than that it was
an amino acid. Since Brian extensively played up the importance of
L-arginine in the diet and a big playup of Esselstyn's vegan diet I
assumed that L-arginine must appear in large quantities in plant foods
and be deficient in animal foods. But that it not the case. The body
actually manufactures most of the L-arginine it needs and any deficit
can be made up from the diet pretty much no matter what you eat. I
won't cover the plant sources (which are many) but the Wiki article on
L-arginine list the animal sources as: dairy products (e.g., cottage
cheese, ricotta, milk, yogurt, whey protein drinks), beef, pork (e.g.,
bacon, ham), gelatin , poultry (e.g. chicken and turkey light meat),
wild game (e.g. pheasant, quail), seafood (e.g., halibut, lobster,
salmon, shrimp, snails, tuna). That pretty much covers all the bases.
So, what's left aside from the docs who are selling L-arginine,
citrulline and other unrelated things (Dr. Ignarro puts his imprimatur
on many other supplements from Herbalife beyond his L-arginine formula)
I think that brings us to Dr. Esselstyn's diet. Sorry, but I'll just
never be a vegan even if it does extend my life. His regimen also
requires statin usage to achieve very low cholseterol... something I
gave up over 10 years ago. I won't bore y'all with the data here but
there is plenty of research (especially that done at the Division of
Geriatrics, University of California, San Diego) that clearly shows
that, for the elderly, the higher your cholesterol the longer you live.
Yup, the number really do say that. Simple as that. Look 'em up on
PubMed if you find that hard to believe.
I don't know if Dr. Esselstyn is really reducing cardiovascular disease
with his program but it would be interesting to know the all-cause
mortality of his long term patients. My personal hope it that I get
taken out by a massive and (of course) fatal heart attack or stroke.
The alternatives like cancer, Parkinsons, alzheimers, etc. don't
interest me as a way to go.
Chuck Norcutt
On 4/25/2013 11:35 AM, Charles Geilfuss wrote:
> As always, the devil is in the details:
>
> http://www.theheart.org/article/372335.do
>
> Firstly, he won the 1998 Nobel Prize for his work in elucidating the
> role of nitric oxide in vascular physiology (and rightly so since we now
> have Viagra because of his research). The Prize had nothing to do with
> L-arginine and heart disease. Seems the good doctor is paid handsomely by
> HerbaLife to promote their products.
> Regarding Dr. Prendergast, he may be a fine doctor, but I'm immediately
> suspicious of anyone who makes grandiose claims of success with a simple
> compound that no one else seems to know about. Oh, and the clincher, he
> also sells the product on his website.
> Brian, I truly wish something like this was legitimate, but I am
> unconvinced.
> The dietary issue is equally problematic. It is extremely difficult to
> do long term diet studies as it relates to a disease condition. Short of
> locking subjects in a prison and strictly controlling what and how much
> they eat, the only way to track diet is by survey which is notoriously
> inaccurate. If you look carefully at studies of diet and HD there is really
> very little correlation between the two; and the little difference found in
> some studies is often made to look larger by the clever application of
> statistics. If you really press the cardiologists, and I have done this
> with a number on our staff, they will sheepishly tell you they see little
> correlation between serum cholesterol and heart disease in their patient
> population. They see plenty of patients with absolutely beautiful blood
> lipid profiles as they present with massive myocardial infarction. They
> also see patients referred to them for "wretched" lipid profiles who show
> zero signs of atherosclerosis. Anecdotally, I have seen this myself: I
> have a good friend, 60 yo, who is Hindu and a lifelong vegan. He recently
> underwent four vessel bypass surgery after experiencing chest pain. His
> total serum cholesterol (mind you, no statins) is 110mg/dl (thats about 2.6
> if you're used to SI Units). Then there is my Dad. We recently had a
> discussion about his internist wanting to put him on Lipitor. My Dad is 85,
> active, sharp as a tack mentally and has no overt signs of any
> cardiovascular disease. For the last few years his blood lipids have been
> creeping up and his last round of tests showed a TC of 280 (about 6.7 SI).
> My advice was to forget about it and keep on enjoying life. They are only
> treating a number that obviously does not hurt you.
> My personal dietary philosophy (and I don't claim to be an expert) is
> simple. After reading one of Jane Goodall's books about chimps, I noted
> that their diet consisted of fruit, leaves, nuts, seeds, insects and meat.
> Conspicuously absent from their diet is starch. Now chimps live about 50
> years in the wild if left alone, and they die of a lot of things, but not
> heart disease. I have followed their evolutionary lead and eliminated most
> of the starch (bread, rice, potatoes, pasta) from my diet. I do eat some
> but limit to whole grain. I do pass on the bugs though; hope that's not the
> key ingredient to long life.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Brian Swale <bj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> To my friends who enjoy quibbling over possible exceptions ...
>>
>> Please load this URL into your browser if you have not already done so, and
>> also watch/listen to the several short and informative videos it provides
>> links
>> to in addition to the text I have written.
>>
>> http://www.brianswale.com/heart-health/heart-health13.htm
>>
>> Then come back and tell me why the 1998 Nobel Medicine Prize was a load
>> of bollocks, and why Dr Joe Prendergast's successful application of the
>> method to himself and 5,000 of his diabetic patients will not also have
>> application to about 300 million USA citizens and countless others around
>> the world who consume a somewhat similar diet. And in this I include people
>> who eat a so-called Mediterranean diet which is just 30% less evil than the
>> standard USA "western" diet.
>>
>> See also
>> http://www.brianswale.com/heart-health/heart-health16.htm
>>
>> or if you prefer it in Spanish, try
>>
>> http://www.brianswale.com/heart-health/heart-health16-spanish.htm
>>
>> http://www.brianswale.com/heart-health/heart-health13.htm
>> is not difficult read, and you just might benefit from it. You never know
>> :-)
>>
>> BTW. The main reason I bother writing all these pages ( 17 so far), in
>> addition to self-interest (and the recovery from stroke of a good friend of
>> mine), is that the NZ heart foundation (
>> https://www.heartfoundation.org.nz/
>> ) and countless similar others, most Med Schools, most GPs, and most
>> heart surgeons HAVE IGNORED THE (by now) 15 years old Nobel prize
>> discovery, which shows without any possible doubt that heart disease in
>> its
>> many forms can be reversed through eating a slightly larger than normal
>> intake of one or two normal human diet amino acids (L-argenine and L-
>> citrulline), and these same two acids can prevent atherosclerosis from
>> developing in the first place.
>> I think their stupid ignorance borders on the criminal.
>>
>> They continue to behave as though the condition actually is unfixable.
>>
>> It's a puzzling human trait. Show people something which is really good and
>> has great potential for their well-being, and they'd rather go and read
>> comics, or do some similar displacement activity. (g) Seriously.
>>
>> My next posting might even have some autumn shots for a change. And I
>> did use my Obsession 6 x 17 camera in the last week. Put a whole roll
>> through it. All 4 exposures. Will possibly shoot some 6 x 9 or 6 x 7
>> tomorrow. Mamiya Press and Koni-Omega.
>> Some aspects of digital are pissing me off. But I also know I make huge
>> errors with LF film :-(
>>
>> PS, I had my eyes tested today. Cataract development is not considered a
>> concern - a slow-developing type ( that's what HE said) and has progressed
>> from 0 to 1.5 in a scale of 0 to 10. My own opinion is that it has
>> progressed
>> fat too fast for my liking. But I WILL get some new specs.
>>
>> Brian Swale
>> --
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>>
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