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Re: [OM] (OM) OT Tina's scanning settings for K64 slides

Subject: Re: [OM] (OM) OT Tina's scanning settings for K64 slides
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:13:53 -0700
On 6/24/2012 10:49 AM, Brian Swale wrote:
> While watching the various examinations of Tinas scans, and suggestions
> offered, I wonder (again) about the reflection of blue sky in very dark shiny
> hair, and how much is a legitimate representation of the truth.
>
> Also, the degree of saturation of brown in skin which is habitually exposed a
> lot to the sun. See below. The last one from Moose seems to have lost most
> saturation, which surprises me.

Brian, I think you misunderstand what I was doing with these most recent 
images. At first, I, and others, as in the 
links you make to Mike and CH's versions, made various efforts to take Tina's 
posted JPEGs and make them more realistic 
looking.

I'm not sure why you choose to provide links to three images I posted 
individually. They are much better seen in the 
roll-over I posted. 
<http://www.moosemystic.net/Gallery/Others/Manley/First_Photo.htm> It is dead 
simple HTML, to which 
I can't see why you would have any objection, and makes viewing them together, 
in context - and most importantly - with 
labels easier.

I believe you are making invalid assumptions about skin and hair colors. I've 
not been to the parts of Central America 
Tina visited. I have been to Costa Rica and many times to Mexico. It is my 
experience that people in different parts 
often have different body types, facial features, skin tones and hair color. My 
late wife, half Mexican had, to North 
Americans, black hair. She disagreed, saying, in effect, that in Mexico, where 
almost everyone has hair we would call 
'black', many variations were recognized. Hair that is so black it seems to 
have some blue in it is one of those. Those 
of predominantly Olmec descent don't look like Zapotecs, or Aztecs, or Mixtecs, 
and so on and so on. In addition, 
different villages and areas have different mixing in of Spanish blood.

The upshot is that I don't believe it is possible for someone who hasn't been 
there to make meaningful judgements, even 
speculations, about the 'truthfulness' of the hair and skin colors of people in 
Central American villages.

For those reasons, and because Tina's professional work is known based on what 
is on the slides, my intent in this 
project has nothing to do with accurate depiction of the original subjects, " 
... a legitimate representation of the 
truth." It is entirely about finding a simple, highly automated way to get 
scanning results that come close to matching 
the original slides. If blue highlights are in the original slide, I do not, 
for this work, care whether that is what 
the hair looked like to Tina's eye in the field, decades ago.

The first image is not mine at all. It is the Raw scanner output Tina obtained 
from SilverFast. I presented it simply so 
everyone who has been struggling with her posted images and heard her talk 
about how dark the SF output is could see 
what she is talking about.

The second image is also not about Moose correcting the image to something he 
prefers or thinks might be more realistic. 
It is simply what VueScan did with the SF output, using VS defaults.

VS has a similar type of linear, unmodified scanner output available, and can 
'scan' from those 'RAW' files. I often use 
this capability, scanning with the hardware and film into RAW files without 
making any adjustments. I can then scan from 
the files, making whatever adjustments I want. The first step is just mindless 
feeding of film into the scanner. The 
second is where corrections for film base, film color inaccuracy, exposure, WB, 
and so on may be done, as well as dust 
removal. The image may later be rescanned with different parameters without 
ever having to actually physically rescan 
it. So, for example Kodachrome that was scanned to RAW files with IR channel 
included before VS's new, improved ability 
to remove KR dust may be 'rescanned' for dust removal from the RAW files.

The results in color correction, contrast, and highlights seemed to me a big 
improvement, as I would expect from 
application of gamma and correction for some KR idiosyncrasies.

The third image is another VS 'scan', with adjustments to Black Point, 
Brightness and Curves in VS to lighten the 
overall image.

It falls, to my eye, into a middle ground between dark shadows in bright 
sunlight and some visibility in those shadows. 
I won't know if it should be lighter or darker, more or less contrasty, until I 
get feedback from Tina.

Further, I'm not trying to get this one image 'perfect'. I'm looking for a 
process that will work for the vast majority 
of the half-million slides she is scanning. These settings work pretty well for 
two of the samples she sent me. Neither 
is perfect, but both look at least decent and natural, while retaining all the 
histogram so that any ones desired could 
be customized for excellent printing, etc.

The same settings don't work as well for the third sample, leaving the bottom 
of the histogram 'high and dry'. A quick 
pull down of the histo in Levels is all that's needed, but I'd like to find a 
more generalized solution requiring no 
individual intervention. The goal is a process that may be applied to batches 
of scans automatically.

> To what degree is the acceptance dependent on Tins'a memory of what the 
> colour seemed to be?

As above, I'm not trying to deal with that, but with what's on the slides. Our 
picture of what the world and its peoples 
look like has been formed through looking at images made from Kodachrome slides 
far more than actual experience. 
Duplicating these KR slides in scans would be just wonderful, I think.

I rather suspect that cinematographers for nature movie/videos have the 
National Geographic and other printed images 
from Kodachrome much in mind as they set the colors for their work. Paul Simon 
was both right and wrong. They have taken 
our Kodachrome away, but not the enduring color legacy in innumerable images 
and our memories.

Voluble Moose

-- 
What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?


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