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Re: [OM] In search of villains, was: web-pages: Flash or html ?

Subject: Re: [OM] In search of villains, was: web-pages: Flash or html ?
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:01:09 -0400
And I thought I had done well.  I distrusted the Wikipedia description 
so did (I thought) my due diligence and cross-checked it.  I found 
someone who disputed the voltage as the cause of the limit but almost 
immediately found another page which gave a rather involved technical 
explanation of why voltage and cross-talk was the problem.  So I 
accepted what was there.  Sounded at least as convincing as you.  :-)

But I reject your comment about copper pairs.  Not that it's wrong but 
just that it's immaterial to the design of a modem designed for the 
analog voice telephone system that is limited to 3 kHz... or maybe it's 
5 kHz.  Whatever, it's definitely slow, wire speed notwithstanding.

And maybe the existing system is left in place for DSL but that's 
assuming it's not the same system that was installed in 1958.  I 
recently did convert to VoIP and am very happy.  But when I wanted to 
wire my VoIP modem into the house wiring what I discovered was not a 
Bell System Network Interface Unit (already ancient technology) but a 
good old Western Electric lighting protector and a falling off ground wire.

As to VoIP... it give me a good clean signal, costs only half as much as 
POTS and gives me many more features to boot.  I'm a happy camper.

Chuck Norcutt


Ken Norton wrote:
> Chuck wrote:
>> Chris is apparently looking for villains where there are none.  Yes,
>> there is a law in the US restricting analog telephone modems to, not 56
>> kbps, but 53.3 kbps.  The reason has to do with preventing cross-talk at
>> the higher voltage required to actually get to 56 kbps.
> 
> The Wikipedia explanation is a little convoluted and poorly written.
> It has nothing to do with higher voltage or crosstalk. At the
> voice-switch, the signal is processed through an AD/DA converter. This
> creates a hard bandpass filtering. The exact amount of bandwidth is
> limited to a DS0 minus overhead. As this is a fully switched
> environment your signal is 100% isolated through TDM (Time Division
> Multiplexing) from any other signal.
> 
> The copper pairs themselves are not limited to 3khz in any way shape
> or form. In fact, even the original ADSL format utilizes frequencies
> as high a 1mHz. An HDSL (4-wire T1) will commonly interfere with or be
> interferred with the original analog television channel 3 audio
> broadcast. I think that's 1.44mHz.
> 
>> Now about DSL.  DSL stands for Digital Subscriber Line.  Which simply
>> means that the phone company has converted your personal DSL line from a
>> 3 kHz analog line to a digital line with something much more than 64
>> kbps capacity on your end.  That means they had to change the switching
>> system for your line and also means that your connection takes up some
>> multiple of those 64 kbps digital lines.
> 
> No changing out systems.  The DSL system is what we call an "overlay"
> technology. Inotherwords, it leaves the existing system in place and
> just adds this on top of what is already there. At the house, you have
> a dsl filter which removes the dsl noise from the telephone handset,
> and at the central office there is a splitter (same as the dsl filter)
> that peels off the dsl and sends to to the dslam while putting the
> voice-only signal on the line-card of the voice switch.
> 
> Now, however, we are dealing with VoIP, which is another critter
> altogether. Trust me, VoIP isn't anywhere near as good as POTS. It's
> failings are so numerous on so many levels. The only advantage to VoIP
> over POTS is stat-muxing and the fact that packets are routable
> without the SS7 control network.
> AG
-- 
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