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Re: [OM] [SPAM] Re: HNY and its

Subject: Re: [OM] [SPAM] Re: HNY and its
From: Andrew Fildes <afildes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:07:53 +1100
It is essentially a blended language with both teutonic and Latinate  
origins - that accounts for a lot of the complexity in vocabulary and  
irregularity in grammar and pronunciation. It has then been  
simplified by removing inflected endings for instance.
I suspect that formal grammar is taught in countries where the  
language has more formal rules while it is more or less ignored in  
Britain and other English-speaking countries and I think always has  
been. The upper level of the two tier system in England was known as  
the Grammar Schools and required entry by examination with a pass  
rate below 25%. I think Germany still practices a version of this in  
some states. There I was taught strict grammar, but it wasn't  
popular. There is now an alternative form of English taught in my  
state at final years of High School called 'English Language' -  
students study the history of the language and formal grammar. It's  
quite popular with the right kind of student. (The other alternatives  
are 'English', 'English Literature' and 'English as a Second  
Language' - students must pass one of the four and can only do ESL if  
they've been in Australia less than six years and come from a non- 
English background).

In fact there are a remarkable number or formal rules, as most  
printers and publishers used to know. Most people are unaware of them  
and learn by pattern recognition.They go well beyond the 'i before e  
except after c' type of rule. The most common errors are to do with  
spelling, homophones and apostrophes.

Most languages work on a two level system of use - formal and  
demotic. This is most clearly distinguished in Greek - but I don't  
think you'll hear literary 'Karathevousa' (sp?) spoken in the streets  
of Piraeus very much. As I remember, it has about 14 cases, compared  
to four or six for demotic Greek. And cases are a nice example -  
English has 'cases' but hardly any English speaker would be able to  
identify any of them.
And you can't fool me - most languages are butchered on a daily basis  
by their native speakers. I remember being taught the subjunctive in  
French at school, in laborious detail, only to discover later that  
the French almost always avoid it. And somewhere I have an excellent  
book on the correct usage of vulgar French - such valuable verbs as  
foutre which don't seem to feature in regular dictionaries. Some  
idiomatic expressions are quite bizarre. It even has a full chapter  
on the correct hand and facial gestures for different situations,  
especially driving.
Andrew Fildes
afildes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



On 02/01/2009, at 8:05 PM, Frank van Lindert wrote:

> English is very poor in grammar, so it must be easy to learn the few
> rules that exist. It is very rich in idiom, but mistakes you make with
> that have nothing to do with grammar. And the pronunciation is
> sometimes bizar: no rules at all, I would say. Only experience will
> teach you how to do it. My CEPD (Cambridge English Pronunciation
> Dictionary) with CD helps a lot though.

-- 
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