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[OM] Re: Diesel, wasFirst newbie question

Subject: [OM] Re: Diesel, wasFirst newbie question
From: Jan Steinman <Jan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:23:02 -0700
> From: Winsor Crosby <wincros@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> I don't think it is so cut and dried.

Like everything else of moderate or greater complexity, the proper  
answer is always: "It depends..." :-)

> Considering that you pay extra for a diesel engine just like you pay
> a hybrid premium it is hard  to see savings there.

Ah, but with a hybrid, you're paying for complexity, whereas with a  
diesel, you're paying for strength. Complexity tends toward increased  
maintenance, strength tends toward reduced maintenance.

> Diesel fuel here is
> more expensive than premium gasoline and oil company spokesmen say it
> is going to stay that way because diesel takes more of that precious
> oil to produce.

Hmmm... I'm not sure I follow. Diesel is a lower fraction, and  
requires less processing to produce. They have to go through  
"cracking" to increase the yield of gasoline, at the expense of  
diesel production.

It sounds like an excuse to me, not a reason. In fact, I'm pretty  
sure I read somewhere that the reason diesel is so expensive now is  
that refineries have re-tooled for more cracking (which requires more  
energy), leaving less base stock for diesel. In straight fractional  
distillation, diesel should always be more plentiful and cheaper.

 From strictly an efficiency point of view, it would be best if all  
our transportation would use diesel -- eliminate cracking entirely,  
and save the aromatic top fractions for solvents, instead of burning  
them up in low-compression, low-efficiency engines. But of course,  
this is an issue of moderate or greater complexity... see my first  
paragraph above...

> Then you have to deal with cost of upkeep...

Actually, I think diesel scores here. Except for a few lemons (the  
Chevy 350 comes to mind), lifetime cost of ownership is lower for  
diesels if you take care of them and drive them a long time.

If you "churn" vehicles, and like to drive new ones, then sure,  
you're not going to get much benefit of long life, but I'm glad  
SOMEONE churns diesels -- I can't afford new ones!

> My brother has had three large pickup trucks with diesel engines...  
> the percentage increase in
> mileage from 8 MPG to 12 MPG is huge you wonder whether it is enough
> to overcome the extra cost of vehicle.

Too bad he picked the wrong diesel. :-)

My 2wd Cummins (no one who owns one calls them a "Dodge" :-)  
routinely got 22-24 mpg. I needed a 4x4 (as in, "driving through  
hayfields", rather than commuting and looking tough on the highway)  
and it *only* gets about 20 mpg.

Coming back home from southern Oregon with a 3,500 pound trailer  
load, it went down to 18 mpg.

> There are also twice
> as frequent oil changes...

Not according to the owner's manual, but regardless: I willingly  
change oil more often (and use synthetic) when I have a vehicle that  
should have no problem cresting a half a million miles than I do with  
gassers that may be shot before 200,000.

> ... the faint stink of diesel...

What, you don't like french-fries? My diesels don't stink. But the  
downside is that I always seem to be hungry while driving...

Anyway, I hear where you're coming from, Windsor. A lot of it's  
situational. Everyone's going to have their own needs to fill, and  
their own biases. Please don't take my strong opinions as any sort of  
attack on yours.


:::: Never fear failure! If inevitable, embrace it! ::::
:::: Jan Steinman http://www.EcoReality.org ::::



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