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[OM] Re: [OM][OT] Epistemology sub-group - was perceived meaning of a ph

Subject: [OM] Re: [OM][OT] Epistemology sub-group - was perceived meaning of a photo
From: Andrew Fildes <afildes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:47:30 +1000
Ah but Plato/Platon always gave Socrates the last word - what was the  
great man's (probably dismissive) response?
My struggles with menu Spanglish and a few cognates isn't up to  
getting much meaning out of this anyway. (fundarse?!!)
If he's arguing that there is an intermediate position between  
ignorance and real knowledge, I'd suspect that Plato goes on to argue  
(not prove, argue!) that that knowledge and belief are quite  
different things. Or at least gets Diotime to admit so.
AndrewF


On 09/10/2005, at 11:45 PM, Fernando Gonzalez Gentile wrote:

> Well I don't know the name of this Plato writting in English, it's  
> known in
> Spanish as 'El Banquete'. There, Socrates discusses this topic with  
> Diotime.
> In my Spanish translation, it's as follows (sorry folks, I don't  
> have such a
> biligual library):
>
> Diotime-..., o ¿no has observado que existe un término medio entre la
> sabiduría y la ignorancia?.
> Sócrates- ¿Cual es?.
> Diotime-Tener formada una opinión verdadera sin poder dar razón de
> ella; ¿no sabes que eso no es ni ser sabio, porque la ciencia tiene  
> que
> fundarse en razones, ni ser ignorante, puesto que lo que
> participa de la verdad no se le puede llamar ignorancia?.
> La opinión verdadera ocupa, pues, el justo término entre la ciencia  
> y la
> ignorancia.
>
> Platón, "El banquete" .
> (pp117. Austral Espasa-Calpe 1973)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fernando.
>
>
> on 9/10/2005 11:10, Peter Leyssens at peterleyssens@xxxxxxxxx, wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>>> Therefore neither truth nor the non-existence of truth can prevail?
>>>> The problem is in the 'absolute'. There is also relative truth -  
>>>> the
>>>> idea that something can be true at a particular time or in a
>>>> particular context. There is 'best fit' - 'this theory best  
>>>> explains
>>>> the problem at this point.'
>>>> Subjectivity has no place in logic unless you enjoy solipcism.
>>>> The idea of truth is a useful tho' unreliable social construct.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But showing that the existence of truth cannot be proved does not  
>>> prove that
>>> truth does not or cannot exist, it merely proves that we have no  
>>> way of
>>> knowing whether truth exists or not...
>>> Nor can we prove that we know that we know anything? The end  
>>> result is faith
>>> in something or other.
>>>
>>
>> And since you're trying to prove the existence of truth using  
>> rational
>> means, and failing, might also imply that your tool (rational  
>> thinking)
>> is inadequate.
>>
>>
>
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