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[OM] Re: [Way OT] Diet, how'd we get here from telecentricity?

Subject: [OM] Re: [Way OT] Diet, how'd we get here from telecentricity?
From: Earl Dunbar <edunbar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:19:00 -0400
Yes, but changing your diet to include a LOT more fats (the sausage 
worries me!), after having heart problems, would be risky in my mind. 

As for me, Lipitor seems to be working well, so I can enjoy Zweigels 
white hots, a Rochester signature "food".  I balance everything with 
salmon and red wine.... more of the latter.

Earl

Chuck Norcutt wrote:

>Earl Dunbar wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Chuck, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that you should do 
>>what you did, but I'd say that after having a triple bypass it was a 
>>pretty amazing, even courageous decision, and I applaud you ... and am 
>>really glad for the results.
>>    
>>
>
>I didn't view it as courageous... just the wise thing to do.  The major 
>component of my cholesterol score was triglycerides.  On a high carb 
>(low fat) diet my triglycerides were above 900.  Switching to low carb 
>dropped my triglycerides to 200.  The way total cholesterol is computed 
>is HDL + LDL + (triglycerides/5) so the 700 point drop in triglycerides 
>was a 140 point drop in the total.  However, since my total cholesterol 
>was still "too high" I was put on a 20mg dose of Lipitor as well.
>
>Amazingly enough (rest his soul), my physician did not understand the 
>role of triglycerides in the overall cholesterol score.  This despite 
>the fact that he was an internist on the staff of the Harvard Medical 
>School at a teaching hospital.
>  
>
>>One thing I noted was that you said, "good red meat" ... with the 
>>emphasis on "good" for me.  IOW, it's the same "old" story:  quality is 
>>very important. 
>>    
>>
>
>Wish I hadn't added "good".  Today I am no longer afraid of cholesterol 
>or saturated fat.  I don't care how much fat is on the beef or how much 
>butter is on the (green) veggies.  The Inuit (eskimos) and Maasai don't 
>die of heart disease.  They eat an extremely high fat diet and don't 
>even eat their veggies for fiber.  :-)
>
>  
>
>>I do agree with Garth about it not being a "diet" for everyone.  It 
>>likely wouldn't work for me.  At one point in my life when I lost a lot 
>>of weight, I ate plenty of carbs.  My cholesterol issues are genetic, so 
>>meds make the difference.  I haven't tried an extensive regime of 
>>dietary control and herbs, etc., to see if I could replace the Lipitor, 
>>but I might look into that.
>>    
>>
>
>I have been on 20mg Lipitor since 1998.  Ever since then I have been 
>plagued with muscle pains which have been gradually spreading from my 
>pectorals to my thighs and knees and now to other parts of my body. 
>Standard liver function and CPK level tests (check for muscle damage) 
>have never indicated anything wrong.  However, recent research shows 
>that statin drugs are capable of causing muscle damage that does not 
>show itself in CPK tests.  I've also been having memory problems with 
>the *names* of people and things.  Maybe just old age but there is 
>growing suspicion that statin drugs can also cause memory problems.
>
>Anyhow, after reading the book "The Cholesterol Myths" by (well 
>published) Swedish physician Dr. Uffe Ravnskov (three times now) I have 
>decided to stop worrying about cholesterol entirely and have taken 
>myself off Lipitor two weeks ago.  Ravnskov's book basically says that 
>the cholesterol emperor has no clothes and he takes you into much of the 
>original research to show you how it is flawed and, in many cases, 
>downright dishonest.  I found this very hard to believe until I 
>personally pursued two randomly chosen cholesterol related papers on 
>medline and discovered that I couldn't find the data in the body of the 
>papers to support the conclusions.  I finally realized that the 
>cholesterol myth in now so powerfully embedded that, if you don't toe 
>the line, you don't get any research money.
>
>I should make it clear that Ravnskov does not actually recommend going 
>off statin drugs.  On that subject he concludes that statins are 
>actually working to reduce deaths from CHD by a modest amount.  But he 
>maintains that the effect is most likely from reduction of inflammation 
>or some mechanism other than cholesterol reduction.  The reason I went 
>off Lipitor is because of my own muscle and memory problems and growing 
>evidence that taking statin drugs, while reducing deaths from CHD, 
>increases the death rate from other causes.  I've decided I'd much 
>rather go out with a massive heart attack than assume increased risk of 
>cancer.
>
>Am I worried?  Not at all.  After you've read Ranvshov's work you will 
>understand that elevated cholesterol has never been shown by *any* 
>research study to be a risk factor (let alone cause) for CHD in men over 
>the age of 50 and has never been shown to be a risk factor for women of 
>*any* age.  Furthermore, there's plenty of evidence to indicate that 
>reducing cholesterol in the elderly is contraindicated.
>
>I'm trying to convince my father now to stop taking the Gemfibrozil that 
>his doctor recently prescribed for him.  The doctor told him he was 
>borderline diabetic and he was prescribing the Gemfibrozil to help lower 
>his blood glucose level.  In fact, Gemfibrozil is an old line 
>cholesterol lowering drug which has a side effect of *increasing* your 
>blood glucose level.  The message is do your own research and think for 
>yourself.  I'm upset that an 84 year old man who appears to be as 
>healthy as a horse and has never taken drugs is now having some 
>"intervention" worked on him which is likely to harm him rather than 
>help him.
>
>On a related note of do your own research; at the same time I quit 
>taking Lipitor I also took myself (slowly) off a large dose (100mg) of 
>atenolol which had been prescribed by my cardiologist (also Harvard Med 
>School) to slow my heart rate (not to reduce blood pressure which was 
>already low).  Sometime after starting on the atenolol about two years 
>ago I developed inverse psoriasis which has been growing progressivly 
>worse.  The psoriasis was diagnosed by my dermatologist (also Harvard 
>Med School).  While I was researching Lipitor I also decided to do some 
>research on beta blockers (atenolol).  Turns out that beta blockers have 
>a side effect of exaccerbating psoriasis.  Since stopping the atenolol a 
>week ago the severity of the psoriasis has subsided significantly.  It 
>has been completely controllable using only over the counter 
>hydrocortisone cream instead of the prescription mometasoue furoate I 
>had been using.  It seems to be continuing to subside and I have hopes 
>that it might even go away completely.  Neither the GP, cardiologist or 
>dermatologist (all on the Harvard teaching staff) picked up on this or 
>warned of possible side effects.
>
>Don't trust your doctors. Even the best educated ones.  Do your own 
>research.
>
><http://www.thincs.org/>
>
><http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967089700/qid=1125063510/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-9279265-7494304?v=glance&s=books&n=507846>
>
>Chuck Norcutt
>
>  
>



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