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Re: [OM] Re: olympus-digest V2 #4273

Subject: Re: [OM] Re: olympus-digest V2 #4273
From: whunter <whunterjr@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:12:51 -0400
Quick clarification:
Basically, none of my comments can be isolated from context of reply to the post of Gwinn despite having been discarded again.

On Saturday, August 23, 2003, at 03:53  AM, Moose wrote:

I believe we have both semantic misunderstanding and technical misunderstanding here.

I posit that when Bill says 'inconsistency
I did NOT and would NOT have utilized the word inconsistency as reflecting the coatings or the quality of lenses in any manner. This is a term posted by Gwinn which I believe to be incongruent with science and the historical development path of Zuiko lenses.

' he means there are many different reflection colors in the 50/1.8 (by the way, we still don't know from the evidence presented which version is being discussed) and pretty much all the same color on the 55/1.2
Read Guinn['s original post which does is not congruent with facts.

I further posit that Lee, like me, thought he meant poor process control leading to coating which were inconsistent within and/or between batches of the same element for the same lens.
This originated with Gwinn's comments, not me. The problem arose when someone presumably with good intent extracted my comments and responses away from Gwinn's post then proceeded to rebuttal ignoring the essential context and thread.

As to the first supposition, I believe there may be a misapprehension that consistency of reflective color is in some way indicative of quality. The reverse is true. The earliest coated lenses had relatively consistent reflection colors. Later SC formulas had more and more different colors for the reasons I recently posted. All MC formulas incorporate multiple colors. This multiplicity of colors of reflection is a result of increasingly sophisticated and effective coating design and technology, including better programs and faster computers to run them on. The 55/1.2 is a relatively early SC coating design. The 50/1.8 miJ is a relatively late MC design.
Exactly, all of the above and MORE.

As to the second supposition, I don't now believe that is what was meant.

whunter wrote:

Whoa.....Take a deep breath. Perhaps i should have used 'stand alone' wording in anticipation of cut and paste out of context and out of my control as in the thread now presenting from Lee. My original post in specific response to Gwinn's comment and provided herewith for context:

The entire contextual portion of Gwinn's post has been removed again.
*****************************
One must factor:
    - time period whence manufactured.
    - where manufactured and the vendor for MC

There is an assumtion here that bears questioning. I am under the impression that Oly manufactured and coated all their own lenses
My 'evidence' for use of an outside specialized vendor specifically equipped for coating technology is indirect and valid but superfluous to the review of this issue. Olympus manufactured lenses and cameras and accessories and......... and subcontracted for specific services and parts. (If pushed, I can probably find the relevant reference albeit moot.) It does not really make any difference whether the coating was done by an outside vendor, on Olympus production line A, Olympus production line B, the revised production line C at Olympus, or where ever. The times they were a changin and so was coating technology and so were most if not all models of the product line . As Moose has emphasized, this was not a de rigueur technology. The constant evolution in science, equipment and MARKET for MC resulted in a 'continuum; of coating products, presumably better performing over a 25+ year period. To find, as Gwinn designated to be "inconsistency" in color and conclude this represents either presence OR absence of "inconsistency" in coating and optical performance is NOT scientific logic which matches the published facts.
except for the Cosina made zooms that were brought out with the OM2000. If true, all this stuff about who may have done the work and whether the 'cheap' lenses were just contracted out to some junk shop would be moot. The 50/1.8 miJ is in fact a very high quality lens with excellent performance, superior to the 55/1.2 according to Gary's tests. It does use plastic in places where it doesn't affect the optical performance but may affect durability. The cost argument is essentially meaningless in this context where a much older design is being compared to a much newer one.
Exactly....... "time period whence manufactured" and totally separate "evolutionary period for the 1.8 versus the 1.2....."
Comparison of the 55/1.2 to the earliest version or 2 of the 50/1.8 would be more appropriate if this whole line of thinking had any purpose related to evaluating the performance of lenses.
I totally concur, thus my 'rub' with the term "inconsistency". The marketplace alone made these two lenses quite different products. I for one, based on published optical testing, believe the 50/1.8 to be one of the best lenses Oly made. Known facts support.. Colors are reported to be diverse in this single product line with time which is consistent with changing technology, NOT "inconsistency" in the product

- evolutionary period for the 1.8 versus the 1.2 which is more than an order of magnitude when adjusted to include the number of units produced for each design X options for low cost bid for large production runs versus small / custom lots.
The maximum serial number in published reports for these two products exceeds an order of magnitude in difference, a simple fact. Both were excellent products and reasonably CONSISTENT in quality, good, but not perfect as reported by testing labs. Whether coated 'in house' or by an outside vendor, different equipment and technology led to equivalent optical performance of the same lens product now reported to have differing 'colors'.

Fundamental point: the facts disagree with Gwinn's linkage of color and "inconsistency" in his use thereof. This list should be about knowledge including science, not whimsical opinion. As previously emphasized, definitely do not believe Lee intended to distort my response by taking it out of context, but such was the result. This convoluted point counter point evolves around something Lee and Moose have both correctly stated: color analysis gives insight into evolving technology when sequential specimens of the same model lens are examined, but little if anything more. Olympus did not operate in a technology vacuum. Documentation of evolving technology for optical coatings during the OM chronology is well documented. Unless Olympus releases historical records specific to the chronology of optical coatings employed, the generalizations I rendered remain as intended, valid generalizations congruent with the history of optical coatings which impacted the OM product line. i know of no facts which support the statement by Gwinn of "inconsistency" linked to color. I do respect his perception and his effort to render this linkage in a contributory manner. Science and known history do not support his analysis.
Bill Hunter


Unexamined assumptions about design and production again.

Moose


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