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From: "Bill Pearce" <billcpearce@xxxxxxx>
To: "Olympus Camera Discussion" <olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 00:02:40 -0600
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Subject: Re: [OM] IMG: Slow Night
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I believe the difference is that many European politicians and their =
populations place a higher value on things like education,healthcare and =
comfortable retirement, whereas most American politicians seem to think tha=
t =
one's character is measured by their bottom line.
-----Original Message----- =
From: Moose
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 6:32 PM
To: Olympus Camera Discussion
Subject: Re: [OM] IMG: Slow Night
On 2/27/2016 2:00 PM, Bill Pearce wrote:
> It is really important for Europeans to understand how helpful the US =
> government is to its citizens. Which is to say it only does the barest =
> minimum.
I can see where that idea comes from. OTOH, I think it's only partially =
true. I find the European model of a higher
level of subsidized citizen care, funded by much higher taxes, rather =
attractive, without knowing the ins and outs
intimately. But that difference, higher taxes, seems substantial.
I was able to stash pre-tax income in IRAs for much of my working life, =
where it was able to grow without being taxed.
That was a pretty substantial lowering of tax to allow me to save for my =
retirement. There was a time, in the mid 70s,
where our marginal Federal and State income tax rate was 51%. Not overall, =
mind you, but the system was more strongly
progressive back then, we were both working professionals, and of the next =
$ =
we earned, 51=A2 went to taxes. So any dollar
we put into IRAs was the equivalent of $2, just to start. Then I have paid =
no income or capital gains taxes on that
money over all these years as investments have been bought and sold, =
dividends paid, etc.
Now, those chickens have come home to roost. I am required to take out mone=
y =
and pay ordinary income tax on it, which
raises my taxes and marginal tax rate, now and in the future. BUT, I've pai=
d =
no taxes in the interim, and even my
increased marginal rate now is lower than it would have been when the money =
was originally earned. I have ABSOLUTELY NO
IDEA how that compares to EU member retirement benefits. I do know that =
there is no such system there, and that people
with limited knowledge and axes to grind tend to discount it. I know it =
makes a huge difference for some people here,
including me.
And it fits both the broad 'Murkin ideals of individual choice and =
responsibility and the conservative Christian ideals
that underlie so much of our culture, of reaping what one sows, and so on, =
and on. I chose to take advantage, even when
it meant delaying or foregoing other things I wanted, and I'm in decent =
shape in retirement. Even when work was awful, I
chose to hang in there. Others will have not done those things, and may be =
in more restricted financial circumstances as
a result. And one of the things that drives some of 'Murkin conservatism is =
a deep sense that this is RIGHT and that
rewarding those who didn't do it RIGHT, is WRONG. There is a fundamental =
social/cultural difference, which is at bottom
comes out of a religious difference, I think. *
In the more socialist EU systems, both paying in and benefiting are less a =
matter of individual choice. How much better
or worse off might I be, had I followed the same life arc in another system=
? =
NO IDEA.
Nor do I wish to promote any particular system. My ancient training as an =
economist and my experience of life make it
clear to me that I don't know nearly enough to judge.
I only suggest that simplistic comparisons are almost certain to be wrong.
Moose D'Opinions
* Anyone who wonders how on earth so many of our poor, of those who are =
discriminated against, of impoverished seniors,
and so on, can support our political right, might find answers in the =
religion of those who came over on the Mayflower,
of Calvinism, and of the many fundamentalist Protestant factions that have =
shaped US society. There are a lot of folks
suffering in various ways in this country who believe that it is a result o=
f =
their own weaknesses, failings, sins and
transgressions, even simply the nature of a world that their God has set as =
a test of suffering. Salvation in the
afterlife, not manna in this one from the Guv'ment, is their goal.
Think all that stuff is old, or only Rural Southern, dying out? When I was =
a =
young man, we were all listening to Peter,
Paul and Mary, and people still are on that liberal bastion, PBS, in endles=
s =
concert repetitions.
I've known a lot of serious lefties, well, still do know a few. A lot of =
them feel that whenever they aren't furthering
the 'cause', whatever theirs may be, that they are less than they should be=
. =
This ain't far from the concept of 'sin'.
And it's sad when they got old and infirm, and feel they are 'bad' for not =
being able to do what they used to. And I
don't mean intellectual feeling, it's emotional. Even when used in opposite =
political directions, these ideas of
obligations to some greater power and sin in failing to always fulfill them=
, =
this stuff is still in the bones of US
culture and society, even for those who are, or believe themselves to be, =
wholly secular. It is profoundly different
from the secular legacies of Catholicism.
Sure, we were all energized by "If I Had a Hammer", and "Where Have All th=
e =
Flowers Gone", but look at many of other
songs on their best selling records. Here's one:
*"Morning Train"*
I'm goin' home on the morning train
I'm goin' home on the morning train
I'm goin' home on the morning train
If you don't see me you can hear me singing
All my sins been taken away, taken away.
Sister Mary wore three links of chain
Sister Mary wore three links of chain
Sister Mary wore three links of chain
On each link was my Jesus name
All my sins been taken away, taken away.
I'm on my way to the freedom land
I'm on my way to the freedom land
I'm on my way to the freedom land
Lord God Almighty hold my hand
All my sins been taken away, taken away.
Well I don't know but I been told
Streets in heaven paved in gold.
Keep your hand on that plow, hold on.
Hold on, hold on, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.
The devil he has a slippery shoe
And if you don't watch out he'll slip it on you
Keep your hand on that plow, hold on.
Hold on, hold on, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.
I'm goin' home on the morning train
I'm goin' home on the morning train
I'm goin' home on the morning train
If you don't see me you can hear me singing
All my sins been taken away, taken away.
-- =
What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
-- =
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