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Re: [OM] Grammar, was Paul's PAW - apparently, bad at math

Subject: Re: [OM] Grammar, was Paul's PAW - apparently, bad at math
From: Jez Cunningham <jez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 09:25:22 +0000
From what I understand it's the sort of book that might annoy me - I think
it aims to say that language evolves and whatever is current is ok. I don't
really agree. Sure language has to evolve, but without structure and rules
you don't guarantee effective communication. It's just like an electronic
protocol - get a bit/byte wrong and the communication fails. Agreed, we
humans can make intelligent guesses as to what was intended, but if you
have to depend on the intelligence of the receiver to correct the errors
that are transmitted you risk failure.
jez


On 6 November 2013 05:56, Chris Barker <ftog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I might get that, Jez, thanks.
>
> This is the book that I read around 20 years ago:  Grammar and Style,
> Michael Dummett, a university lecturer who tired of the poor English of his
> students:
>
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grammar-Style-Examination-Candidates-Others/dp/0715624229/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383717154&sr=1-1&keywords=grammar+and+style
>
> It's an easy read, perhaps because it is written well, slim and eminently
> portable.
>
> Chris
>
> On 5 Nov 13, at 22:25, Jez Cunningham <jez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > The sample pages (and maybe the rest of this book) are an interesting
> > summary of the state of English as she is taught (or not) in England:
> >
> >
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Natives-Discover-Grammar-Dont/dp/1848548370/ref=pd_cp_b_2
> >
> > On 05/11/2013, Chris Barker <ftog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Exactamundo, Philippe.
> >>
> >> But there’s a problem in your list of parts of the various verbs: most
> >> native English speakers of my acquaintance would not understand the
> >> differences.  Nor would they understand the parts of the verb that you
> have
> >> written in the list.
> >>
> >> English grammar in this country has been defunct as a part of education
> for
> >> years.  Our well-educated visitors from other countries can perform much
> >> better than the natives, if my experience is anything to go by.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> On 5 Nov 2013, at 20:55, philippe.amard <philippe.amard@xxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le 5 nov. 13 à 21:42, Chris Barker a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> But it's probably where the confusion arises, mostly in your
> >>>> country, between the 2 verbs "lie" and "lay".  :-)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Just imagine the colateral damage in this country ;-)
> >>>
> >>> to lie, lied, lied
> >>> to lie, lay, lain
> >>> to lay, laid, laid
> >>> to lead, led, led
> >>>
> >>> #&!!!@##*/???!
> >>>
> >>> Ph
> >>
> >>
> > --
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