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[OM] Re: Diesel, wasFirst newbie question

Subject: [OM] Re: Diesel, wasFirst newbie question
From: Winsor Crosby <wincros@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:53:39 -0700
I don't think it is so cut and dried. In recent years we have had a  
restricted range of diesel models to look at in this country,  
especially the new modern variety. In this Car and Driver comparison  
the VW diesel had worse urban driving mileage than the Toyota Echo  
and there was only one MPG difference in their actual highway  
mileage. The two hybrids in the test did better than either.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/8427/the-frugalympics.html

Considering that you pay extra for a diesel engine just like you pay  
a hybrid premium it is hard  to see savings there. You are not going  
to save money with a Mercedes diesel either. :-) Diesel fuel here is  
more expensive than premium gasoline and oil company spokesmen say it  
is going to stay that way because diesel takes more of that precious  
oil to produce. So there are no fuel purchase price savings either.  
Since the low sulfur oil needed to produce cleaner diesel emissions  
is always going to be in short supply it will probably get worse as  
more people buy diesel cars. Engineering schemes to clean diesel  
emissions by injecting urea will add complexity and cost to the  
diesel engine as well as providing another tank on the car you will  
have to pay to fill.

Then you have to deal with cost of upkeep. Your choice seems to be  
between a frugal small car or hybrid using gasoline with great  
reliability, or a more expensive diesel in 2008 from VW(forget the  
$60K Mercedes) which corporation has shown itself content with  
letting their cars eat you alive with repair costs. Maybe, if we get  
more to choose from in the future like the well reviewed Honda diesel.

My brother has had three large pickup trucks with diesel engines  
because he likes to tow things, but it is the low speed torque more  
than fuel consumption, I think. While the percentage increase in  
mileage from 8 MPG to 12 MPG is huge you wonder whether it is enough  
to overcome the extra cost of vehicle. The higher fuel cost partially  
wipes out the savings of the mileage increase. There are also twice  
as frequent oil changes because there is more "blow by" to dirty the  
oil with combustion products with 20+ to 1 compression ratios.

So Auto Week notwithstanding and given the choices we may have it  
appears that one of the less expensive hybrids may be the low cost  
and high mileage champ, just edging out a small gasoline engined car.  
And neither will have the faint stink of diesel tracked in on the  
carpets. :-)





Winsor
Long Beach, California, USA




On / July 2, 2007 CE, at 7:19 AM, Bill Pearce wrote:

>
> I think we have a twisted view over here.
>
> Just over a year ago, when visiting Italy, we rented a Renault  
> convertible
> (Americans insert riotous laughter here). We didn't know it was a  
> diesel
> until we saw the sign on the inside of the filler door.
>
> We didn't figure mileage, but I can tell you we drove a lot, and it  
> never
> seemed to use any fuel. I would buy one in an instant.
>
> I'm with Autoweek. If you are interested in the environment, you  
> can make a
> case for a hybrid. If you are interested in economy, a diesel will  
> beat the
> total expense every time.
>
> Bill Pearce
>
>
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