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[OM] Re: Spitfires and obsolete military airfield

Subject: [OM] Re: Spitfires and obsolete military airfield
From: Roberto Ciocca <ciock@xxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:02:11 +0200
my compliment for your technical description! It look like You know 
very well the matter, even if You are not a Pilot. But I suppose You 
are fond of Aircrafts!
Roberto.

Il giorno 10/apr/05, alle 04:08, mwalters ha scritto:

> Brian et al:
>
> This is going to really be off topic. So apologies to all those out 
> there in
> Zuikoland who don't get turned on by planes and warbirds especially.
>
> As a non-pilot, here is what I understand about torque and propellor 
> planes - in
> this case the Spitfire.  The later Griffon engined versions had much 
> more power
> (1800 -2200 hp depending on version) than the merlin engined ones 
> (1000 - 1600
> IIRC). The engines (and props) rotated in different directions.  The 
> Griffon
> engines were getting close to delivering more power than the airframe 
> could
> handle, especially at low airspeeds (eg, take off) when the control 
> surfaces are
> less effective. Once airborne, the rudder could be trimmed so that the 
> plane
> would fly straight without continual pressure on the rudder pedals (an 
> Bf 109,
> on the other hand, had no rudder trim and the pilot had to apply 
> rudder pressure
> throughout flight). Another thing to remember is that all control 
> surfaces were
> manual - no servo assist here, and forces were related to speed, 
> design and
> gearing. Ailerons were notorious for stiffing up at speed, and roll 
> rates
> dropped significantly as airspeed went up. Some planes were better 
> than others.
> The Spitfire was OK, though others, notably the FW190, had better role 
> rates.
>
> All single engined prop planes will turn more easily in the direction 
> of prop
> rotation. Pilots learned to live with it. Twins should not have this 
> problem.
> However, it depends. The P-38 Lightning had handed engines (they 
> rotated in
> different directions). The Mossie generally had both engines rotating 
> in the
> same direction, though the later marks had handed Merlins (again 
> IIRC). It was
> really a question of gearing  the prop drive accordingly (I never 
> understood why
> Supermarine/RR didn't either design the Griffon to rotate the same 
> direction as
> the Merlin, or gear the prop accordingly). However, planes of the size 
> of the
> Mossie had much larger airframes and control surfaces, so would have 
> been better
> able to control prop torque.
>
> Brian is right that the XVIII was a brute, but boy was it fast. Pilots 
> of the
> Griffon spits treated the engine's torque with respect. In fact at 
> slow speeds,
> the torque was enough to overcome the controls and the plane would do 
> a torque
> roll under full throttle. A lovely situation if you were trying to do 
> an
> overshoot!!!  The only answer was contra-rotating props, as seen on 
> the Seafire
> 47. This had a 2200 hp griffon but no/no torque effect as each prop 
> rotated in
> opposing directions.
>
> Martin.
>
> Fernando Gonzalez Gentile wrote:
>
>> on 9/04/2005 00:10, Brian Swale at bj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, wrote:
>>
>>> So, if we are invaded, we will all have to become guerillas
>>
>> Supposing the noun 'guerrilla' has an Spanish etymology, Brian; 
>> correct
>> spelling is done with a double 'r' :^)
>> How many times did I double (or missed to double) an 'n', 's' or 'p' 
>> so far,
>> trying to write in English?
>>
>> Joking a little on a serious issue. Too late to be awake this Friday
>> night... - no surprise pronouncing 'gorillas': is there an essential
>> difference?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Fernando.
>>
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