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Re: [OM] [OT] "Point and Shooters"

Subject: Re: [OM] [OT] "Point and Shooters"
From: "Lex Jenkins" <lexjenkins@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:39:15 GMT
As I've said before in trying to close out my thoughts on this thread, the concept of liberty, and the awesome responsibility of maintaining it, is so foreign to most people - or so frightening in its complexity and scope - that they are incapable of understanding or accepting its absolute truth. Those people are just along for the ride. They will live to inherit and enjoy the fruits for which others made incredible sacrifices. Yet nothing I say will persuade you otherwise. Such is the arrogance of experience, the notion that the sum of what we perceive in our short lifetime equals any universal truth.

This Constitutional Representative Republic does not exist today in a form that the founders would recognize, tho' a few would find little to disagree with. Then, as now, there were those who doubted the soundness of this experiment.

But it persists as an ideal worth protecting with my life, however vainly, because short of the fulfillment of my spiritual beliefs (better left unsaid considering the tone of this thread), there is nothing better on Earth. Yes, it may come to the point of violating a system of legalism that has attempted to legislate fundamental freedoms out of existence. But as those who fought the American Revolution knew, there is a difference between legalism and justice, between what is law and what is right.

The reason the Constitution is explicit rather than relying on the vagaries of common law is that the lines are clearly drawn for all to see - whether they choose to or not, whether they wish to recognize it or not.

Yes, agents within the government acting under color of law have indeed violated the Constitution. The McCarthy example is a rather poor one because despite the notoriety of that era (elevated to undeserved stature by the liberal media) he was eventually stopped when he became abusive. The fact remains that Communists did hold positions within the U.S. government. McCarthy simply lost any sense of perspective. I can think of far more detestable examples of such abuse of power and violation of Constitutional rights, such as a pre-WWII Douglas MacArthur leading a lethal assault against American veterans demonstrating to demand their guaranteed benefits. Yet history regards MacArthur as a somewhat flawed hero of WWII, not as a criminal who oversaw the massacre of American citizens.

Yes, it is the flawed implementation of a flawless ideal. Diligence, an understanding of the entire history of mankind, and a refusal to compromise on certain fundamental principles are required to help others recognize that this ideal comprises self-evident truths - not a wishbook of whims. And that protecting this ideal may in an extreme situation involve the ugliest of all human actions, the killing of those who oppose it. Those who reject that notion believe that liberty is a gift. Those who accept that awful truth recognize that liberty is a right.

BTW, it is "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Lex
===

From: "Terry and Tracey" <foxcroft@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:11:59 +1100

OK, I've ignored this, but I can sit quiet no longer.

Let's remember a couple of things. The great US of A started through a
treasonous act. That's right. They weren't patriots, they were fighting
their king's forces. Against all law.
The laws designed to protect written after the independence thing were not
applied during that time. Less than 1/2 of the population wanted to become a
republic. By force of weapons the wants of the few were forced onto the
many. Great ideals?

So, you said the US constitution survives only because of the weapons to
back it up. What if one group believed one thing, and another group
something different. Both believe they are right. Where does it end? This is
the civil war.

The first amendment didn't stop McCarthy. How did he do that with the
freedom of speech rule? Was the governemnt on his side, effectively denying
the first amendment?

We have no freedom of speech enshrined in our constitution. It is hidden in
common law. We can pray in school. Why can't you? Yet non Christian
religions can. Freedom?

Someone once said unarmed I am a subject, armed I am a citizen. With the
exception of the US, can you show me one country that is not a monarchy or
constitutional monarchy where the freedoms proposed in their constitution
works? Why does it work in the US? They haven't figured out to shoot the
lawyers first. 8-}

How does is owning a gun a fundamental human right? You constitution (or
declaration of independence, I forget which), has those great words "liberty
freedom and the pursuit of happiness". Shooting makes me happy, but I don't
believe anyone would say it is a fundamental human right.

I love the US. I had the joy to go there recently for work. Wasn't looking
forward to it. Now I'm converted. Take me back, particularly to the South.
But please don't go on about how guns shall set you free. It's like
copulating for virginity.

Foxy


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